vmaxphil Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Sent away for my shotgun renewal just before christmas, had the finest Jamaican blue mountain coffee ready, madam was poised to make home made biscuits, just waiting for the phone call and my new certificate arrived Saturday in the post for the third time in a row, now I will have to eat all the biscuits and drink all the coffee ! Should read Feo Edited February 22, 2015 by vmaxphil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) What no visit to inspect cabinet ect? This is just more evidence of forces doing their own thing,although some may think it fine to grant without visit,it is totally wrong to assume the cabinet ect is still located and anchored to the structure of the building.Id personally be on the phone asking for that visit and inspection to cover yourself.Lets say for example in the next few weeks or months you have to take your cabinet off the wall for some house maintenance.Then out the blue your FEO comes a knocking,he's going to assume that that cabinet may of been off the wall prior to renewal. Edited February 22, 2015 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu nesling Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 they all differ. i have had 1 visit in 20 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 my mate never had a visit just posted to him, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just goes to show how the police will never win.on previous threads on this forum they have been blasted for wanting to check security and now we have them blasted for not checking.Thats pw life I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Sent away for my shotgun renewal just before christmas, had the finest Jamaican blue mountain coffee ready, madam was poised to make home made biscuits, just waiting for the phone call and my new certificate arrived Saturday in the post for the third time in a row, now I will have to eat all the biscuits and drink all the coffee ! Should read Feo Times change. When I bought my first handgun I bought a cabinet because the RFD I bought the gun from thought it prudent (and he wanted to make the sale of course) not because I had been told I had to get one. I never had a visit from a FEO to check security nor for any other reason all the years I had handguns, and my .303 SMLE stood in the corner of my bedroom behind a bookcase for donkies years. It wasn't until I applied for my SGC that I was required to buy a cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just goes to show how the police will never win.on previous threads on this forum they have been blasted for wanting to check security and now we have them blasted for not checking.Thats pw life I suppose.No body is saying the police can never win,after recent events the police should be doing everything and that includes a visit,let's hope it never happens .But leTS say FEO phones up on a renewal and asks "is you security OK,is the cabinet still where it was 5 yrs ago? Ok licence is in the post.Then an incident,and it comes to light during a tribunal that family members had quoted that the cabinet was removed from a fixed position and guns where not stored.FEO is called into the dock and asked " Did you visit to inspect security and cabinet before grant? Eh no we couldn't be ***** and took his word for it. I have my FEO calling me next week regarding my renewal and I will be requesting a visit,I want it done by the book or not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just goes to show how the police will never win.on previous threads on this forum they have been blasted for wanting to check security and now we have them blasted for not checking.Thats pw life I suppose. In fairness the police allegedly charge gun owners for a service, that service has always included security checks in the form of home visits by FEO's. Whilst I have no issues with renewals being dealt with via a phone-call, I have issues with the police proposing increases in certificate fees when the cost of home visits is undoubtedly one of the elements used to justify such an increase! ...............It is gauling when the police don't actually do them! But still want to charge certificate holders more money.......for even less of a service! If the police were honest, renewals would be based on the cost of a phone call, postage and a bit of admin work and should be about a fiver or maybe a tenner to certificate holders at most?......Or in my opinion paid from the public purse! All plod are doing is passing on the government cuts to their budgets to the shooting public to pay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaunda Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 they all differ. i have had 1 visit in 20 years! Likewise;HQ have your records,local plod knows you well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The police are entitled to do a home visit at any time throughout your licence term although they may do some renews on a phone call you may get a visit a couple of weeks later and if your cabinet is not correct expect them to be leaving with your guns and certificate. I would suggest you save the complaints for when you get told to put your guns into storage due to them being short staffed and not when certificates come through in good time.I believe everything should be done according to home office guidelines and maybe that will mean higher costs to employ more staff then so be it. Edited February 22, 2015 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I would suggest you save the complaints for when you get told to put your guns into storage due to them being short staffed In the case of a certificate not being renewed through a shortage of staff then the licensing authority would be required to issue the applicant with a temporary permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 In the case of a certificate not being renewed through a shortage of staff then the licensing authority would be required to issue the applicant with a temporary permit.[/quote And if you are happy with a s7 that only entitles you to hold and not buy guns or ammo then I am happy for you.And as far as I am aware they issue s7 without a visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) And if you are happy with a s7 that only entitles you to hold and not buy guns or ammo then I am happy for you.And as far as I am aware they issue s7 without a visit. Correct, a S7 only entitles you to hold your own guns; always preferable and much handier than having them in storage, but if you don't return your current ticket while undergoing the renewal process why would you need either a S7 or to put your guns into storage? I have only ever been issued with one temp' permit and it was handed to me by my FEO on his visit to check my security on renewal. Before he left he told me that if I needed to buy ammo he could give me my current ticket back, which was when I learned it isn't necessary, nor a requirement, to send in your current ticket until you are issued with a new one. He told me to burn the S7 when I received my new ticket. Am pleased you're happy for me Mick. Edited February 22, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Correct, a S7 only entitles you to hold your own guns; always preferable and much handier than having them in storage, but if you don't return your current ticket while undergoing the renewal process why would you need either a S7 or to put your guns into storage? I have only ever been issued with one temp' permit and it was handed to me by my FEO on his visit to check my security on renewal. Before he left he told me that if I needed to buy ammo he could give me my current ticket back, which was when I learned it isn't necessary, nor a requirement, to send in your current ticket until you are issued with a new one. He told me to burn the S7 when I received my new ticket. Am pleased you're happy for me Mick. If you had read the application forms it states you can send in a signed copy of your certificate if you wish. And as you full well know I was talking of s7 being issued due to your current one expiring but why let facts get in the way.This thread seemed to me being about certificates being issued before they ran out and without a visit.So no real need for temporary certificate. Unless as some have hinted they will insist on visit before renewal is completed therefore causing a gap due to insufficient staff.I will leave you to work your editing magic on this one now.I have animals to tend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 If you had read the application forms it states you can send in a signed copy of your certificate if you wish. I wasn't aware of that Mick, but it was some time ago, but thanks for the heads up. And as you full well know I was talking of s7 being issued due to your current one expiring but why let facts get in the way. Were you? Sorry, I thought you were referring to a licensing authority telling an applicant they must put their guns into storage due to staff shortages. The only instance they can insist on this is if the applicant has forgotten to apply or failed to apply for renewal in the allotted time. For all other reasons, including staff shortages, the licensing authority will be required to issue a S7. This thread seemed to me being about certificates being issued before they ran out and without a visit. In which case I fail to see why they would be told to put their guns into storage. So no real need for temporary certificate.....and no need for them to be told to put their guns into storage? Unless as some have hinted they will insist on visit before renewal is completed therefore causing a gap due to insufficient staff. All my visits have been 'before renewal is completed', so I'm not following you there, nor do I understand how a visit in this manner (or any other) will cause a shortage in staff. I will leave you to work your editing magic on this one now. It's not magic Mick; it's dead easy. Just click on 'quote' and then type in your response in B for BOLD or I for italics etc etc. I have animals to tend. Which reminds me; my turn to make tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) If you had read the application forms it states you can send in a signed copy of your certificate if you wish. I wasn't aware of that Mick, but it was some time ago, but thanks for the heads up. And as you full well know I was talking of s7 being issued due to your current one expiring but why let facts get in the way. Were you? Sorry, I thought you were referring to a licensing authority telling an applicant they must put their guns into storage due to staff shortages. The only instance they can insist on this is if the applicant has forgotten to apply or failed to apply for renewal in the allotted time. For all other reasons, including staff shortages, the licensing authority will be required to issue a S7. This thread seemed to me being about certificates being issued before they ran out and without a visit. In which case I fail to see why they would be told to put their guns into storage. So no real need for temporary certificate.....and no need for them to be told to put their guns into storage? Unless as some have hinted they will insist on visit before renewal is completed therefore causing a gap due to insufficient staff. All my visits have been 'before renewal is completed', so I'm not following you there, nor do I understand how a visit in this manner (or any other) will cause a shortage in staff. I will leave you to work your editing magic on this one now. It's not magic Mick; it's dead easy. Just click on 'quote' and then type in your response in B for BOLD or I for italics etc etc. I have animals to tend. Which reminds me; my turn to make tea. ah yes your favourite little trick again.taking sentences apart so bringing them out of context to suit your obvious need to disagree with anything on this forum.well carry on as if this is the only terms that you can reply on tnis forum it shows that you have no real argument.i do not for one minute believe that you are anywhere near as daft as you would like people to believe by your naïve postings.atb Edited February 22, 2015 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 ah yes your favourite little trick again.taking sentences apart so bringing them out of context to suit your obvious need to disagree with anything on this forum.well carry on as if this is the only terms that you can reply on tnis forum it shows that you have no real argument.i do not for one minute believe that you are anywhere near as daft as you would like people to believe by your naïve postings.atb Thanks Mick. I'd like to say i feel the same way about you. I don't disagree with everything on this forum. You seem to disagree with everyone who wants those in authority to do their job as it is supposed to be done, and that narks me as much as my posts nark you. I couldn't give a chuff about whether a visit takes place before, after or never, but it is annoying when those in authority start interpreting those rules, guidelines, what ever you want to call them, to suit their needs. I'm sorry you feel my postings are naive; do you care to explain why? I haven't taken anything out of context, merely replied to each point you've raised; is that wrong? I wont do anymore 'tricks' Mick if you prefer, but it will make for longer replies. Didn't you state someone should perhaps wait to complain about being told to put their guns into storage due to them being short staffed rather than complaining their tickets had been returned without a visit? Isn't that what you meant? If I've taken this out of context then what else did you mean by this? Are you suggesting that a visit by a FEO renders a licensing authority short staffed? In response to that suggestion I was merely pointing out that a licensing authority can only tell an applicant to put their guns into storage if their ticket is delayed due to the fault of the applicant. For all other reasons, including staff shortages, the licensing authority would have to issue a S7, IF the applicant has returned their current ticket as part of the renewal process. If an applicant leaves it too late to apply for whatever reason and their licensing authority tells them they should lodge their guns with a RFD as a result, then that is the applicants problem and doesn't really give them much cause for complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks Mick. I'd like to say i feel the same way about you. I don't disagree with everything on this forum. You seem to disagree with everyone who wants those in authority to do their job as it is supposed to be done, and that narks me as much as my posts nark you. I couldn't give a chuff about whether a visit takes place before, after or never, but it is annoying when those in authority start interpreting those rules, guidelines, what ever you want to call them, to suit their needs. I'm sorry you feel my postings are naive; do you care to explain why? I haven't taken anything out of context, merely replied to each point you've raised; is that wrong? I wont do anymore 'tricks' Mick if you prefer, but it will make for longer replies. Didn't you state someone should perhaps wait to complain about being told to put their guns into storage due to them being short staffed rather than complaining their tickets had been returned without a visit? Isn't that what you meant? If I've taken this out of context then what else did you mean by this? Are you suggesting that a visit by a FEO renders a licensing authority short staffed? In response to that suggestion I was merely pointing out that a licensing authority can only tell an applicant to put their guns into storage if their ticket is delayed due to the fault of the applicant. For all other reasons, including staff shortages, the licensing authority would have to issue a S7, IF the applicant has returned their current ticket as part of the renewal process. If an applicant leaves it too late to apply for whatever reason and their licensing authority tells them they should lodge their guns with a RFD as a result, then that is the applicants problem and doesn't really give them much cause for complaint. there you go.i do not disagree with anyone wanting the police and other authorities doing things as the rules state but as I have no doubt you already know that when it comes down to official government bodies if they all stuck rigid to the rules in every case hardly anything would get done..so when things are done as in this case and the ordinary man benefits from it then why complain.also I never said that visits cause under staffing I said they did not do the visit due to staff shortages.instead put trust in the applicant.your point about s7 only being needed if they fail in getting the certificate issued in time is not what I was talking about one post on here said he would not want his renewal without a visit and would insist on it.so that could be termed as a refusal to accept the certificate and therefore no s7.and as for your comments narking me as you put it I can assure you there are no comments on this forum that can nark me.i look upon this and other forums of the same type as just a place for light hearted banter.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) there you go.i do not disagree with anyone wanting the police and other authorities doing things as the rules state but as I have no doubt you already know that when it comes down to official government bodies if they all stuck rigid to the rules in every case hardly anything would get done..so when things are done as in this case and the ordinary man benefits from it then why complain.also I never said that visits cause under staffing I said they did not do the visit due to staff shortages.instead put trust in the applicant.your point about s7 only being needed if they fail in getting the certificate issued in time is not what I was talking about one post on here said he would not want his renewal without a visit and would insist on it.so that could be termed as a refusal to accept the certificate and therefore no s7.and as for your comments narking me as you put it I can assure you there are no comments on this forum that can nark me.i look upon this and other forums of the same type as just a place for light hearted banter.atb My renewal was hand delivered on 26/11/14 and expires 27/03/215, so handed in well in advance,but learnt last week they have lost( 1st denied I had handed it in) my application.It was only admitted that it was lost,miss placed when I took my bank statement in showing the cheque was cashed on 3/12/14. I now have to complete a new application. How pathetic to State me demanding a visit is myself refusing the licence,the reason I want a visit is down to multiple cock ups by Durham,one in perticular was my sons FAC coming with a different name on it.Police computer updated to state letter to sons school for referance( officer never carried out this action and was waiting for a reply that he didn't send).And now although my application was handed in well in advance I will be refused a S7 because I have to complete a new application with only 5 weeks remaining on my licence.Short staffing is no excuse for incompetence . Edited February 22, 2015 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 there you go.i do not disagree with anyone wanting the police and other authorities doing things as the rules state but as I have no doubt you already know that when it comes down to official government bodies if they all stuck rigid to the rules in every case hardly anything would get done..so when things are done as in this case and the ordinary man benefits from it then why complain.also I never said that visits cause under staffing I said they did not do the visit due to staff shortages.instead put trust in the applicant.your point about s7 only being needed if they fail in getting the certificate issued in time is not what I was talking about one post on here said he would not want his renewal without a visit and would insist on it.so that could be termed as a refusal to accept the certificate and therefore no s7.and as for your comments narking me as you put it I can assure you there are no comments on this forum that can nark me.i look upon this and other forums of the same type as just a place for light hearted banter.atb Can't agree with any of that Mick, and especially your last sentence. I'm not sure what happens in the world of Mick, but most official bodies do stick rigidly to the rules; that is why we do most of our complaining. It is not for official bodies to interpret any rules to suit themselves, to take short cuts nor for any other reason, and especially not with those regarding firearms. If Durham police had stuck rigidly to the rules Atherton would never have got his guns back, and now here they are claiming a GP's report will end such another incidence. There's no legislating for incompetence. There may be little logic in firearms legislation and guidance, but they're there for a reason. Like I said, I don't care whether there is a visit before, after, during or never, but it has to be consistent; not one rule for one force and let another do as it pleases. That way lies chaos and confusion. This is why there is such a mess regarding GP's reports and who pays. Some forces ask the applicant to pay, some don't. You've totally lost me regarding your comments about S7 now I'm afraid. You seem to chop and change your mind about what you mean with no regard for continuity or structure to a sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 My renewal was hand delivered on 26/11/14 and expires 27/03/215, so handed in well in advance,but learnt last week they have lost( 1st denied I had handed it in) my application.It was only admitted that it was lost,miss placed when I took my bank statement in showing the cheque was cashed on 3/12/14. I now have to complete a new application. How pathetic to State me demanding a visit is myself refusing the licence,the reason I want a visit is down to multiple cock ups by Durham,one in perticular was my sons FAC coming with a different name on it.Police computer updated to state letter to sons school for referance( officer never carried out this action and was waiting for a reply that he didn't send).And now although my application was handed in well in advance I will be refused a S7 because I have to complete a new application with only 5 weeks remaining on my licence.Short staffing is no excuse for incompetence . maybe you should have put your reasons for wanting a visit on your earlier post not add bits later like now.in your first post you said you would insist on a visit before renewal nothing about your history of application.staff shortages have all sorts of reprecussions.it puts extra pressure on the whole system and errors can occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Can't agree with any of that Mick, and especially your last sentence. I'm not sure what happens in the world of Mick, but most official bodies do stick rigidly to the rules; that is why we do most of our complaining. It is not for official bodies to interpret any rules to suit themselves, to take short cuts nor for any other reason, and especially not with those regarding firearms. If Durham police had stuck rigidly to the rules Atherton would never have got his guns back, and now here they are claiming a GP's report will end such another incidence. There's no legislating for incompetence. There may be little logic in firearms legislation and guidance, but they're there for a reason. Like I said, I don't care whether there is a visit before, after, during or never, but it has to be consistent; not one rule for one force and let another do as it pleases. That way lies chaos and confusion. This is why there is such a mess regarding GP's reports and who pays. Some forces ask the applicant to pay, some don't. You've totally lost me regarding your comments about S7 now I'm afraid. You seem to chop and change your mind about what you mean with no regard for continuity or structure to a sentence. well that has surprised me scully does not agree.atb as for medical reports I believe that nowhere in the home office guidance does it state the applicant has to pay for this.and as the shooting organisations have repeatedly said don't do it.so no problem there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) .And now although my application was handed in well in advance I will be refused a S7 because I have to complete a new application with only 5 weeks remaining on my licence.Short staffing is no excuse for incompetence . They can't refuse you a Sec.7 on that basis, your renewal was returned in good time, anything after that point is their problem. They cannot use their own incompetence causing the longer delay as a reason to refuse it. Any aggro about it write a formal complaint demanding a section 7 or your renewed FAC before March 22nd to the chief constable, also send copies to the PCC and your MP and make sure they are cc'd on the chief constables copy so he knows you're sending them. Edited February 22, 2015 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 maybe you should have put your reasons for wanting a visit on your earlier post not add bits later like now.in your first post you said you would insist on a visit before renewal nothing about your history of application.staff shortages have all sorts of reprecussions.it puts extra pressure on the whole system and errors can occur. Even if I had no issues with Durham,I would still expect that visit regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 blimey I didn't expect that response, I only posted it to be light hearted, I still have some coffee and biscuits left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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