Jump to content

another what gun thread.


storm in a teacup
 Share

Recommended Posts

Sorry everyone but its another what gun thread.

After being taken out wildfowling by my mate for the first time I am now well and truly hooked. I am currently looking for a suitable gun for the new season, having looked throught the previous what gun threads many of the recomended guns are way above my budget.

I am looking for something hard wearing with a 3 1/2 inch chamber and that I can shoot high performance steel through.

The only problem is my budget, I have £400 max but that also includes a few cartridges. So probably nearer the £350-£370 mark ( 3 young kids and a rubbish job cap my budget). I would really like to spend as little as possible so I think secondhand is the way to go.

I have been looking at pumps as they are cheaper than semi's and black rather than camo as seem to be a bit cheaper as well.

I have been looking at the winchester sxp, does anyone have any experience of them? If not what would you recomend I keep my eye out for over the next few months.

thanks for your time

storm

I've just bought a revo k200 duck blind camo 31/2" 12g o/u for 420.00 its synthetic and they are made for the mud and gutters these guns,two fowlers I now have them already and love them and said they have knocked the s... out of them and there solid!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I've just bought a revo k200 duck blind camo 31/2" 12g o/u for 420.00 its synthetic and they are made for the mud and gutters these guns,two fowlers I now have them already and love them and said they have knocked the s... out of them and there solid!

place were I got it are also selling the Winny sxp duck blind for 370.00 that's a great price and its lovely gun...if ye can remember to pump it...ha-ha!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Listen up,

There is no great ballistic advantage in a 3 1/2" super magnum over and above a good 3" steel shell- Fact ! It theory a 3 1/2" load is equal to a ten bore (its not I have tested both mine side by side, chalk and cheese even same type and brand). I have posted the results on here previous

 

I own a 3 1/2" and have killed a good number of geese using it with said shells, I have likely killed just as many using 3" . I doubt I will be bothering to purchase more 3 1/2" once supplies are used up. Remember the cost of 3 1/2" is often quite a lot more in the case of ammo cost and the guns as many have convinced themselves they need a super magnum.

 

I should get a good solid 3" magnum with 1/2 (modified) choke and a 3" chamber and shoot 1 1/4 oz of no.2 steel, don't shoot the geese up the rear or two gunshots high and £400 should get you sorted. Do not dismiss older s/s magnum guns that were made before the increased proof, though its at your risk many of us do just that. No gun is safe just because it once passed a proof (its a bit like having one MOT)

 

The super magnum was developed to sell to those who still thought charge weight rather than shot count and speed when lead was stopped. Fact is number 2 at 1300 fps is very lethal to geese and makes a cracking large duck load.

 

I am not alone in my thoughts and meet more and more on the marsh taking this route and feeding their 31/2" guns 3" shells

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for the record I am changing to an o/u as I shoot more confident with one,and it is better to switch shells if geese put in an appearance, I would not be trying to shoot at geese with 35g of no.4 shot on the foreshore when I can quickly switch to 42 or 46grms in 31/2" shells....that's just my preference and at 5.50 per box for 31/2" ammo in 42grm steel its not going to break my bank ;-) each to their own I say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kent, for the most part your right and I agree and the 10 reigns supreme for capacity, speed and pattern no question, however if you want to shoot flighting geese, at reasonable altitude....... A 3.5" 12ga case will hold more BBB or T shot ( compared to 3")for shooting at distance for an economical she'll as opposed to hevi shot. So it is useful.the 3" case struggles to hold enough shot for pattern density for big shot and long range, upto moderate range it is fine though. For duck I have not felt the need to use 3.5" cases, a 36/38 gram 3" 12ga will do all I ask.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kent, for the most part your right and I agree and the 10 reigns supreme for capacity, speed and pattern no question, however if you want to shoot flighting geese, at reasonable altitude....... A 3.5" 12ga case will hold more BBB or T shot ( compared to 3")for shooting at distance for an economical she'll as opposed to hevi shot. So it is useful.the 3" case struggles to hold enough shot for pattern density for big shot and long range, upto moderate range it is fine though. For duck I have not felt the need to use 3.5" cases, a 36/38 gram 3" 12ga will do all I ask.

 

It does very true but try the same load through a ten, patterns and oddly (based on the fact that I actually tested very slightly faster 12 guage shells in back to back testing with the 10) they don't have as much energy :hmm: me thinks someone at the manufacturer might be telling porkies :rolleyes: All of course are free to use what they want and the mental side of things should never be underestimated but people might wish to search the work Field and stream did on comparisons of the 3" and 3 1/2" 12 ga using the most up to date Ballistic lab, wasn't a hairs breadth between them. This was if you like the final factor for me, I have a fair stock of 3 1/2" left but when they are all used up it will be a 1 1/4 oz of number 2 at a fair lick I will be using exclusively in my 3 1/2" chambered gun Remington Nitro steel being a favourite but hard to obtain at present so I guess I will have to start loading for the 12 as well. I actually use no.2 in my first barrel with the ten (up front its hard not to get a good few into the head and neck) if I don't get the angle I simply don't shoot and although its hard to be a saint I try and only take them well in range rather than on the outer edges of possible. We all fire stupid shots time to time when we commit to the swing and get lucky though no matter how good we try to be . Remember steel has a far greater shot count than lead and we only had 3" then

 

"Altitude?" gosh that's a touchy subject on any forum when it concerns wildfowl (strangely it is sought out in pheasant shooting :hmm: ) and I have yet to see a guy use a rangefinder, suffice to say if it makes a difference to what comes down to the earth the shooter might be stretching things a little too far? I suggest its percentage dead in the air kills we should judge on?

 

anyhow just my personal thoughts and experiance and I meet more season by season who have taken the same line

Edited by kent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what wigeon man says about using 3.5 inch shells with big shot ( BBB ) for geese , however I have found very tight chokes get the best results with this combination. Using big steel shot in open chokes results in very open paterns at 50 yards. As Kent and Wigeon man say, a 3 inch shell will do for most duck shooting though on one marsh where I shoot there is a good mallard flightline over some tall pines. Its rare the duck are lower than 40 yards and most shots are around 50 yards even in a good gale. A 3.5 inch load of No 2s works a treat at this sort of range espically in a full afterchoke.

 

What is important however is good quality steel shells are used , there are still some pretty poor loads forsale that have not been upgraded with modern powders. You will not go far wrong with Gamebore, RC or any of the American shells.Eley Lightning has some good reports though I have not used it yet in 3 inch loads.

 

One of the joys in wildfowling is the variety in guns and shells available. Every experianced wildfowler will have his own idea of the most effective shells and shot sizes that works for him. The most important thing is that you use a gun that works for you and shells that you have confindence in. In wildfowling there is no one size fits all. The shell\gun cobination used for shooting geese over decoys is likely to be different to what you need on the forshore. Good quality steel shells have only been around for a decade or so and I for one am still learning what loads \guns work best in various shooting conditions. What I use for teal comming into a small pool at dusk is likely to be very different to what I use tide flighting mallard and wigeon. If you are a newcommer then see what others recomend as a starter and then as you gain experiance experiment a little with shells and after chokes.

 

 

Kent is so right when he suggests the percentage of kills to shots fired is the best guage as to the effectiveness of your gun and load. On one flight last season under the moon with a stiff wind behind the geese and a clear sky with no background sky I managed 3 geese for 11 shots , shooting at half seen shaddows , while on another foggy morning decoying inland 6 geese for 8 shots, so weather conditions and how comfortable your hide is will have a big bearing on how well you shoot, but if you are putting a goose in your bag for every 3 shots you are on the right road to success.

Edited by anser2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I just correct that on two counts in reference to what I actually posted

Dead in the air kills are different from cripples brought down for their necks breaking , Birds to shell count is a guide to how your shooting though and should be tallied on the day and by the season. I cant be alone in shooting badly one flight then great the next and it does concentrate the mind on the next opportunity though thats for sure (after 4 or five misses only a fool tries a high one)

 

3" are a good duck shell but are also more than capable of geese in the correct shot size and speed (massive difference in shells though)

 

Both my opinion based on what I have experienced on the marsh and in testing, others might see things different I once did

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what wigeon man says about using 3.5 inch shells with big shot ( BBB ) for geese , however I have found very tight chokes get the best results with this combination. Using big steel shot in open chokes results in very open paterns at 50 yards. As Kent and Wigeon man say, a 3 inch shell will do for most duck shooting though on one marsh where I shoot there is a good mallard flightline over some tall pines. Its rare the duck are lower than 40 yards and most shots are around 50 yards even in a good gale. A 3.5 inch load of No 2s works a treat at this sort of range espically in a full afterchoke.

 

What is important however is good quality steel shells are used , there are still some pretty poor loads forsale that have not been upgraded with modern powders. You will not go far wrong with Gamebore, RC or any of the American shells.Eley Lightning has some good reports though I have not used it yet in 3 inch loads.

 

One of the joys in wildfowling is the variety in guns and shells available. Every experianced wildfowler will have his own idea of the most effective shells and shot sizes that works for him. The most important thing is that you use a gun that works for you and shells that you have confindence in. In wildfowling there is no one size fits all. The shell\gun cobination used for shooting geese over decoys is likely to be different to what you need on the forshore. Good quality steel shells have only been around for a decade or so and I for one am still learning what loads \guns work best in various shooting conditions. What I use for teal comming into a small pool at dusk is likely to be very different to what I use tide flighting mallard and wigeon. If you are a newcommer then see what others recomend as a starter and then as you gain experiance experiment a little with shells and after chokes.

 

 

Kent is so right when he suggests the percentage of kills to shots fired is the best guage as to the effectiveness of your gun and load. On one flight last season under the moon with a stiff wind behind the geese and a clear sky with no background sky I managed 3 geese for 11 shots , shooting at half seen shaddows , while on another foggy morning decoying inland 6 geese for 8 shots, so weather conditions and how comfortable your hide is will have a big bearing on how well you shoot, but if you are putting a goose in your bag for every 3 shots you are on the right road to success.

 

You use full choke on a steel cartridge?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cosd , Yes I use a full afterchoke for geese with big shot sizes. There is a big difference between a fixed choke and an afterchoke which is screwed into the barrel. Do not use anything more than 1\2 choke with a fixed choke or you are at risk of the barrel bursting. I use a HLS Undertaker afterchoke with a .007 constriction which is a shade short of full choke. The choke is made for steel with a long tapered cone which reduces the pressure compared with a fixed choke.

Edited by anser2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Choke is debatable

Steel patterns tighter than lead as it don't deform and comes in a great big HD shot cup. My experience? it don't matter how tight you choke it as its the drop off in energy that limits the lower weight steel shot. I have 1/2+1/2 in the ten bore (fixed) and use no greater than a Kicks modified (1/2) in the 12 having proved this to my own satisfaction on range and field tests. If you want more spread or less this can also be done by alterations at the shell itself in the loading room

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
4 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

You could pick up a good AYA Magnum side by side with 3inch chamber for that price i shoot one myself You dont need 3 1/2 inch chamber a 3inch is plenty mate ID STAY away from hatsans there pieces of rubbish plus if u take a day game shooting the AYA will do u lovely :good:

You can't get many BBB in a 3" case.

 

I used to love Kent's posts!!:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have to agree with anser  that for foreshore geese 3.5 with a good aftermarket choke is hard to beat.  Where I shoot the geese regularly cross the sea wall at 45 yards plus and you need to drop them dead for any chance of a retrieve, if they plane off then they are across the other side of the firth and unreachable or in rough ground with cover 3ft tall.

i had a quick look at the field and stream test and the 3 inch put 63 pellets in the circle the 3.5 put 77 in the circle.  For me every pellet counts at range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

3inch more than enough motty for wildfowling its all about were u AIM

The trouble is, Gerry, it is not ALL about where you aim. Pattern matters at range. You could be bang on with your aim at 50 yards, only for your pattern to let you down.

A 3" load of BBB may only contain 77 pellets. The same in 3 1/2" is around 90. Those extra pellets can make a big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 3” loaf of bbb only hold around 75 to get a good crimp. If I press the wad again I might squeeze a few more in. Trying to load a full 36g of them ain’t going to happen, I tried :no::|

Took a nice goose but failed on a few others, think pattern was to blame. Need to be brave and use my Carlson’s Long range Cremator with the bbb shot and hope it don’t bulge. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Motty you make a good point and i agree with you on extra pellets but 50 yards come on.  That fella is new to wildfowling so a 3inch would be enough for him HE learns hes field craft he will not need to shoot 50 yards To be honest a lot of new people trying wildfowling are being told to fire the biggest cartridge they can put through there gun which is MACHO  bull**** thats why a lot of ducks and geese get wounded people firing at extreme range Field craft ie flightlines tides decoys etc far more important than firing 3 1/2 inch candlesticks through are guns

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

Motty you make a good point and i agree with you on extra pellets but 50 yards come on.  That fella is new to wildfowling so a 3inch would be enough for him HE learns hes field craft he will not need to shoot 50 yards To be honest a lot of new people trying wildfowling are being told to fire the biggest cartridge they can put through there gun which is MACHO  ******** thats why a lot of ducks and geese get wounded people firing at extreme range Field craft ie flightlines tides decoys etc far more important than firing 3 1/2 inch candlesticks through are guns

I was specifically making reference to foreshore geese, and with the best will in the world, you may not get a shot at under 50 yards. This is where your choice of load is all important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Motty says flighting geese on the foreshore where I am often means 45 yard plus shots.  Field craft is getting actually under the flight line in these circumstances and then it’s down to the gods at what height they will cross over at.  

Early season I have shot geese with 32 grm no 4 over the sea wall when they are low enough but that is an exception to the rule.

Gerry, I do see where you are coming from re newcomers and just picking a 3.5 inch gun cart combo and starting off on 50 yard shots, not the way to go and as you say learn your craft first.  Once learned a 3.5 still comes in handy on the Scottish foreshore!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with both your posts sometimes using a larger cartridge is the only way for geese especially on the foreshore :yes:but i think that fella starting out wildfowling   whether he buys 3inch or 3 1/2 inch chambered shotgun will need to get out with someone who knows what there doing on the marsh and buy a gun that fits him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, motty said:

I was specifically making reference to foreshore geese, and with the best will in the world, you may not get a shot at under 50 yards. This is where your choice of load is all important.

Got to agree with this, chasing geese around , 50 yard shots start becoming your daily norm... Big shot and tight chokes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...