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anyone else powerd up an FAC air rifle to the max ?


kiteandy
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soon as i get out with my S10 try and do a short Vid as,

 

and will see how far i can hit a target , remember the Cigar unit in mine has been totally rebuilt with custom springs shims / longer knock of valve stem, and a custom made transfer port , thats twice as wide as an FAC version, custom hammer springs with shims ,

 

standard FAC 35 to 40ftlbs

 

are there kids on here ? wot the **** has a tuned FAC airrifle got to do with a car !

 

Of course there are kids on here , you like to tune airguns "to the max" and I like to tune fiat pandas "to the max" nothing wrong with that is there ???

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Kiteandy,

I would suggest that you have a look at the Daystate wolverine 303 or the FX Boss. Look at the specifications, in particular, the power output/shotcount ratio. Do you honestly believe you have achieved a more sophisticated and efficient rifle with a different hammer, few springs and a drill bit for the transfer port, over the two above examples who will have spent many thousands on r&d? Unfortunately for you, there are people on here who do know about the this stuff :yes:

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soon as i get out with my S10 try and do a short Vid as,

 

and will see how far i can hit a target , remember the Cigar unit in mine has been totally rebuilt with custom springs shims / longer knock of valve stem, and a custom made transfer port , thats twice as wide as an FAC version, custom hammer springs with shims ,

 

standard FAC 35 to 40ftlbs

 

are there kids on here ? wot the f,,,, has a tuned FAC airrifle got to do with a car !

 

It's not quite as straight forward as that I'm afraid, and I'm pretty sure you'd know if you'd gone supersonic with those 16 grain pellets, and barn doors would be pretty safe at 70 yards if you did.

 

To be honest, I think you'll be a little disappointed when you get it chrono'd - not just the fps but the variance between shots.

 

There are sound physics around these things which mean there are good reason why you don't get 50, 60, 70 ft lb .22 air rifles. You may be lucky and keep some accuracy but there is a good chance what you have done is ruined a rifle.

 

I'd still be interested in an update though so don't hold back.

 

All the best.

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Of course there are kids on here , you like to tune airguns "to the max" and I like to tune fiat pandas "to the max" nothing wrong with that is there ???

Oh come on Fenboy, surely you realise that admitting to tuning a Panda is like the Stig admitting he wears suspenders under his racing suit! :lol:

 

Now, is there anything you want to tell Uncle Timmy in strictest confidence? My lips are sealed.

 

LISTEN UP LADS, THIS COULD BE A RIGHT LARF!!!!!! :lol:

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i presume then no one has a clue how a airrifle works ! . you have buddybottlle with over 200bar pressure , attached at one end and a regulator , and trigger that knocks a hammer spring to let the air from a chamber in the regulator ,pass through a port , pushing the pellet out of the barrel ! fj5Aq7bz-tI

 

and how powerfull ???

 

s10 11ftlbs 280 shots per bottle / FAC S10 38ftlbs 180 shots per bottle can you seen the pattern or am i wasting my time ?

 

if your getting less shots per bottle ! weres the air going !

Edited by kiteandy
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Andy, prove us wrong. Give us facts and figures instead of conjecture.

I'm no expert on PCPs but even I know when figures don't seem to add up. If you're right then every company that makes PCPs will be looking to employ you very shortly. If you've proved the figures then post them up.

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oh my.

 

The maths and logic are superb!

 

My CBR600 did about 35mpg with a 0-60 of 4 seconds. My Rav4 did about 25mpg so must have done at least 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. If I could find a way for it to do less miles per gallon then I could get close to beating a Veyron.

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a rough guess standard s10 280 shots 11.5ftlbs

FAC s10 180 shots 38ftlbs

s10 90 74ftllbs thats double standard FAC as i just diveded by 2 . and mine gets 55 60 at a push

 

this is just a rough guide

I wish it was that easy!

Think of it like horsepower versus MPH.

No specific example but imagine a car with a 100 HP. May do 100 mph? A car with 200HP won't do 200 MPH because it has to overcome increased resistance just like a bullet or pellet. The faster the projectile, the bigger the resistance. Now get to 500HP, the car has still barely got to 200MPH. 5 times the power but only twice the speed of the 100 MPH car.

That is an extrapolation of a car, not a pellet but I would suggest that the figures aren't too dissimilar.

We know that airgun pellets destabilize at the speed of sound, 950 fps is about the limit. With a 20grain pellet that means just 40 ftlbs.

The same pellet would need to travel at something over 1250fps to achieve 70 ftlbs. As a rough estimate, due to the law of diminishing returns you may get 4 shots at that power but not be able to hit anything. Any assurance from you that your rifle is running at twice the power of most FAC rifles is pure poppycock and fantasy. Go back and check your figures. When you have some incontrovertible proof we'll be more than happy to admit you're right.

Right now I would say your figures are a bit wonky.

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i presume then no one has a clue how a airrifle works ! . you have buddybottlle with over 200bar pressure , attached at one end and a regulator , and trigger that knocks a hammer spring to let the air from a chamber in the regulator ,pass through a port , pushing the pellet out of the barrel ! fj5Aq7bz-tI

 

and how powerfull ???

 

s10 11ftlbs 280 shots per bottle / FAC S10 38ftlbs 180 shots per bottle can you seen the pattern or am i wasting my time ?

 

if your getting less shots per bottle ! weres the air going !

Yes, you are wasting your time, and money.

 

The air used to pellet speed is not a nice easy sliding scale, you have to factor in friction, various coefficients etc that change with velocity so using twice as much air will not give you twice as much power - in fact twice as much air will probably give you maybe 60% more power, but then doubling the air again will only give you maybe another 30% power etc.

 

Another point you are not taking into account is the fact that you are using light weight pellets (in FAC terms) that will have much lower barrel friction so they will have a much shorter time in the barrel than a heavy tighter fitting pellet, this means the pellet is off on it's way whilst your valve is still open so most of that extra air is in effect wasted.

 

I, like most people simply don't believe you are accurately hitting a target at any range with a soft pellet going supersonic. It's up to you to get it crono'd so you can tell us exactly what it is doing but don't assume that people on here don't know about PCPs just because you had a half baked idea that you believe has worked. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but your tone does not encourage sympathy.

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kiteandy,,,

 

did you say your rifle is producing 180 shots running at 38ftlb,s ?

 

if it is mate you are on the brink of something not been seen before,,my advice to you is get it patented and speak to mr Harper who designed the harper patented system,,

 

when you become a millionaire can I have your r10,,

 

cheers Evo

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right the buddy bottle is rammed up to a very high pressure , and the regulator fills a chamber up to the preset limit , so if you can adjust this limit so you can fill the chamber to same pressure as the buddy bottle,

equals more air at a much higher pressure and a bigger transfer port allowing more air pass into the barrel , and a massive hammerspring that keeps the valve open longer alowing all the air to pass quicker from the chamber to the barrel .

 

if thats still to complicated, i give up... thought there might be one engineer here who knows something

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But it is no good having the valve still open after the pellet has left the barrel. Believe it or not there are engineers that know something, they are called gun makers and they can produce useable 100 ft lb rifles but they are large caliber rifles that use heavy specialist pellets, not lightweight accuplels in .22.

 

Here's some light reading....

 

Here a link to external ballistic coefficients: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient

 

And one for internal ballistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_ballistics

 

The same for air guns: http://www.kiledjian.elac.org/phys%20001/Ballistics%20of%20Air%20Gun.pdf

 

A bit on barrels/twist rates etc: http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_accuracy_It_s_not_a_given_Part_1_The_barrel_September_2009/67

 

There's loads more online but the general point I'm making is that you have massively over-simplified the maths.

Edited by FalconFN
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right the buddy bottle is rammed up to a very high pressure , and the regulator fills a chamber up to the preset limit , so if you can adjust this limit so you can fill the chamber to same pressure as the buddy bottle,

equals more air at a much higher pressure and a bigger transfer port allowing more air pass into the barrel , and a massive hammerspring that keeps the valve open longer alowing all the air to pass quicker from the chamber to the barrel .

 

if thats still to complicated, i give up... thought there might be one engineer here who knows something

You are still limited to pellet speed versus destabilisation. If you fill the regulator chamber to the same pressure as the buddy bottle you will only get one shot before it drops off the reg pressure. That means lower FPS. A regulator only works as long as you have a high pressure cylinder and a low pressure regulator. Nothing you are suggesting makes any sense whatsoever.

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kiteandy,,,

 

did you say your rifle is producing 180 shots running at 38ftlb,s ?

 

if it is mate you are on the brink of something not been seen before,,my advice to you is get it patented and speak to mr Harper who designed the harper patented system,,

 

when you become a millionaire can I have your r10,,

 

cheers Evo

 

Evo you dinlow, keep up............ that's just an example the OP has kindly given us thicko's, to understand how the ratio of air pressure is equal to the MV. Its really not hard to grasp if you read post 35 properly ;) The op's defcon 1 S10's actual MV is 90 ft/lbs/ 1600ft/sec (see post 18 ) http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/300966-fac-air-gun/page-1

 

and that's not even using a pellet designed for FAC Air!!

So there is a lot more power to come :yes: We are witnessing a breakthrough in air rifle development on an epic scale!

 

I haven't been this excited since last Friday night with Nicole ;)

Edited by turbo33
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