millrace Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well any update.........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Sorry for late update Guy's, The plumber pulled out building Regs sec H and gave it the big licks, and insisted 45 degrees was the minimum fall for a waste pipe. I've told him if it gets blocked I'll be calling him every time! The builders have boxed round the waste pipe now and have mirrored the other side, Plumbers not happy that I doubted him, not that bothered but told him I woukdnt recommend him, can't afford to get rid and get it all redone, in the time frame I have,will post pics tomorrow evening, looks better now, Thanks for all advice comments etc.. PW members font of knowledge! Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 dam good job you are not having an attic conversion with ensuite, worked a long time in the building industry and building control would never accept this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'd like to see his book - how many soil pipes do you see that are near horizontal in the middle of two vertical sections ? 45 degrees, my bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbob Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) That is unacceptable work, I would condem that in an instant. Believe it or not you can have to steep a fall on a pipe. I am happy to be corrected but if the pipe is too steep the water moves quicker than the solids and this can cause blockages. Check your ceiling joists and see if you can run the pipe in the ceiling zone above. Part H of the building regs (available online for anyone to view) is all about drainage and a quick glance would suggest a connection branch can have a fall of 18-90mm per m run. So a Saltings said a 1:40 gradient would be sufficient. Hope that helps a bit Jbob Edited March 31, 2015 by Jbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 There is a 'self -cleansing' velocity which dictates the pipes minimum fall, from memory (poor) its 1 in 70 for foul and 1 in 120 for SW sewers. In foul sewers where the speed of flow is too great, a series of steps is introduced to reduce the hydraulic energy and slow the flow down. Usually this occurs where there is a good carrying flow. in houses, a short section of almost flat is hydraulically not a problem, 1 in 70 e.g. gives only 4 " fall in 7 metres. No maximum fall is specified (as far as I remember) since 1 in 70 is often close to the site constraints. It is almost 30 years since I read that though !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver90owner Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I would think he, the so-called 'plumber', is quoting angles at which nearly horizontal drains connect to others. They need the in-flow angles quoted so as not to try to send waste up the 'wrong way' at the connection point! At the very worst, he could have used an extra 45 bend at ceiling height to have a short run to the vertical. Certainly a quality job - it just needs the appropriate prefixing descriptor. A suitable descriptor might be the solid material passing through it!! Please name (and shame?). It may avoid disappointment/problems for others in the future. No need for any comment - those seeing it could easily make up their own minds whether to employ him as a plumber. I wouldn't employ him as a tradesman, for starters. RAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 (90)deg soil pipe bends and and branches are something like 2 1/2 deg more obtuse than 90, this I always assumed was the correct run or fall for internal soil pipes. That 45 deg bends is an insult to tradesman and customers country wide. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycatcat1 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I feel sorry for the OP as it sounds as though someone is taking the urine with this job. I am not a builder or plumber but I wouldnt be happy with that job at all as it just does not look right. Does the job not need inspecting by some sort of Building Control type bod or can it be carried out without being inspected? Regards Hcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks again for your replys and advice, I said to him I'll be on to him IF I get a blockages in the pipes he's done, I'm also going to email the photos to the local building regulators, just to get their opinion, (wish I'd done this straight away) if they say it's ok then I havent a leg to stand on, if I get the same response as from you guys, then he'll be named and shamed, we are happy with the end result as its all covered now, but like a few of you said and in section H about the waste getting left behinde by the fast flow of water. And it will anoy me if he's lied to us and the builders. Thanks Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ratus, has this mess been boxed in and covered over with that weird 45 degree bit sticking out into the room? If yes - you cannot leave it like that surely - it will be head banger for anyone over 5 foot tall. And your missus is maybe okay now but wait until she understands just how imposing that thing is going to be on your living area. You are doing the right thing now getting in touch with the BCO. A great shame you didn't get them in to check it before that berk got it covered up - I think they would have told him to go away in short sharp copulating jerks etc I sincerely hope you get this sorted out. DIY.com is a good website to get into if you are unsure about building regs etc, keep it in mind for future work - might save you a lot of bother. Pushkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I hate idiots that think it acceptable to leave something like this in someone's home. Bet the plumber wouldn't have it in his. Hope you aren't paying him in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) I mentioned before his best friend is probably Tonto. The abomination he has fitted wont block - in fact you may hear the rushing past of solids. I hope you make him take it out and redo it when you get the Building control officers advice. I agree with what is aaid above, he seems to be confusing vertical and horizontal angles - I doubt hes an effective student of anything, let alone relatively complex building regulations which usually require some basic training to get along with. Dont ask him how the roughness of the internal bore affects the use of minimum gradients, you may get a recipe for 'sausage' soup. Edited April 1, 2015 by jimmydean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I hate idiots that think it acceptable to leave something like this in someone's home. Bet the plumber wouldn't have it in his. Hope you aren't paying him in full. I hope he's NOT PAYING AT ALL, it is an ABOMINATION! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hi just wondered if any plumbers on here could advise, just had a Wallace cupboard knocked through which held a waste pipe from upstairs, the plumber reckons it has to be a 45 degree angle which has left us with a pipe sticking out a good 8 inches from the wall pic attached. Thanks in advance Ratus words fail me.... that isnt exactly proffesional. best of luck getting it sorted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerSim Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 That is unacceptable work, I would condem that in an instant. Believe it or not you can have to steep a fall on a pipe. I am happy to be corrected but if the pipe is too steep the water moves quicker than the solids and this can cause blockages. Check your ceiling joists and see if you can run the pipe in the ceiling zone above. Part H of the building regs (available online for anyone to view) is all about drainage and a quick glance would suggest a connection branch can have a fall of 18-90mm per m run. So a Saltings said a 1:40 gradient would be sufficient. Hope that helps a bit Jbob I agree that it won't block - but it may cause issues downstream. experience has taught me that 1:40 really is the ideal gradient for foul flow - but that "we" can usually drop to 1:60 for short distances - I won't work below this. There is a 'self -cleansing' velocity which dictates the pipes minimum fall, from memory (poor) its 1 in 70 for foul and 1 in 120 for SW sewers. In foul sewers where the speed of flow is too great, a series of steps is introduced to reduce the hydraulic energy and slow the flow down. Usually this occurs where there is a good carrying flow. in houses, a short section of almost flat is hydraulically not a problem, 1 in 70 e.g. gives only 4 " fall in 7 metres. No maximum fall is specified (as far as I remember) since 1 in 70 is often close to the site constraints. It is almost 30 years since I read that though !! In my considerable experience of dealing with ****, the above posts and Saltings initial reply are on the money. So, IMHO, rip it out NOW, and do it properly. Don't even get me started on the aesthetics of it - *** !! its just madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Evening guys, here is the almost finished job, just requires rubbing down painting etc.. Sorry it's dark, sparky not finished all the lights yet. As for paying him, the Mrs is paying for the alteration, and doesn't want agro from him, as I'm away soon and it was a convenient time to get the alterations done. As stated earlier i'm going to speak to the Building Regs Officer, show him the pic posted on here and see what he says. I will keep you updated on what the Building Regs Officer says, if I get the same response from him as I have on PW, he will be named, to prevent anyone else experiencing his 40 years of 'Plumbing skills??' again I appreciate all your time to advise, and pass on your expertise / experience. Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollieollie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Still can't believe this one, you have lost a lot of space. Terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Ratus Do show the pictures of the initial installation and his efforts to hide the monstrosity to your building inspector, I would love to be at that meeting. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Tightchoke, yes I still have the original pics and a few more which I'll be showing them, this is going to be interesting. We where planning on having a small boxed area on both sides, on the left where the work surfaces finish and on the right where the waste pipe would be, no where as big as this. Cheers Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 the last photo you put up really does show how much light is being cut out from the adjoining room. i have to commend you on your self control over the situation, i would have been snorting flames and blowing smoke out of my ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 That has stopped a lot of light & makes it look like two rooms ..I really would not be parting with any of my hard earned until that was significantly improved ...I think you have shown amazing constraint , as above I would be seriously peed off ..hope it comes good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratus Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 The original kitchen lights where off due to the sparky, there is plenty of light, and another row of ceiling lights to be installed, but instead of a discreet pillar either side, we now have a arch-type way. Cheers Ratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Blimey, for a minute I thought this thread was an April fools joke.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Don't pay til it's sorted simples, There is no need at all for ALL that boxing in, no need at all mate, Typical domestic plumber, choosing the easiest no work involved option/route, I bet he gave you the" I'm only the plumber mate" " you need a joiner to sort that out ". Lol Atb Flynny Edited April 2, 2015 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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