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Toilet Waste pipe fall


ratus
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Sorry for late update Guy's,

 

The plumber pulled out building Regs sec H and gave it the big licks, and insisted 45 degrees was the minimum fall for a waste pipe.

 

I've told him if it gets blocked I'll be calling him every time! The builders have boxed round the waste pipe now and have mirrored the other side, Plumbers not happy that I doubted him, not that bothered but told him I woukdnt recommend him, can't afford to get rid and get it all redone, in the time frame I have,will post pics tomorrow evening, looks better now,

 

Thanks for all advice comments etc.. PW members font of knowledge!

 

Ratus

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That is unacceptable work, I would condem that in an instant. Believe it or not you can have to steep a fall on a pipe. I am happy to be corrected but if the pipe is too steep the water moves quicker than the solids and this can cause blockages.

 

Check your ceiling joists and see if you can run the pipe in the ceiling zone above. Part H of the building regs (available online for anyone to view) is all about drainage and a quick glance would suggest a connection branch can have a fall of 18-90mm per m run. So a Saltings said a 1:40 gradient would be sufficient.

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

Jbob

Edited by Jbob
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There is a 'self -cleansing' velocity which dictates the pipes minimum fall, from memory (poor) its 1 in 70 for foul and 1 in 120 for SW sewers.

In foul sewers where the speed of flow is too great, a series of steps is introduced to reduce the hydraulic energy and slow the flow down. Usually this occurs where there is a good carrying flow. in houses, a short section of almost flat is hydraulically not a problem, 1 in 70 e.g. gives only 4 " fall in 7 metres. No maximum fall is specified (as far as I remember) since 1 in 70 is often close to the site constraints. It is almost 30 years since I read that though !!

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I would think he, the so-called 'plumber', is quoting angles at which nearly horizontal drains connect to others. They need the in-flow angles quoted so as not to try to send waste up the 'wrong way' at the connection point!

 

At the very worst, he could have used an extra 45 bend at ceiling height to have a short run to the vertical.

 

Certainly a quality job - it just needs the appropriate prefixing descriptor. A suitable descriptor might be the solid material passing through it!!

 

Please name (and shame?). It may avoid disappointment/problems for others in the future. No need for any comment - those seeing it could easily make up their own minds whether to employ him as a plumber. I wouldn't employ him as a tradesman, for starters.

 

RAB

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I feel sorry for the OP as it sounds as though someone is taking the urine with this job. I am not a builder or plumber but I wouldnt be happy with that job at all as it just does not look right.

Does the job not need inspecting by some sort of Building Control type bod or can it be carried out without being inspected?

Regards

Hcc

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Thanks again for your replys and advice, I said to him I'll be on to him IF I get a blockages in the pipes he's done,

I'm also going to email the photos to the local building regulators, just to get their opinion, (wish I'd done this straight away) if they say it's ok then I havent a leg to stand on, if I get the same response as from you guys, then he'll be named and shamed, we are happy with the end result as its all covered now, but like a few of you said and in section H about the waste getting left behinde by the fast flow of water. And it will anoy me if he's lied to us and the builders.

 

Thanks Ratus

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Ratus, has this mess been boxed in and covered over with that weird 45 degree bit sticking out into the room? If yes - you cannot leave it like that surely - it will be head banger for anyone over 5 foot tall. And your missus is maybe okay now but wait until she understands just how imposing that thing is going to be on your living area. You are doing the right thing now getting in touch with the BCO. A great shame you didn't get them in to check it before that berk got it covered up - I think they would have told him to go away in short sharp copulating jerks etc I sincerely hope you get this sorted out. DIY.com is a good website to get into if you are unsure about building regs etc, keep it in mind for future work - might save you a lot of bother.

 

Pushkin.

:good::good::good:

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I mentioned before his best friend is probably Tonto. The abomination he has fitted wont block - in fact you may hear the rushing past of solids. I hope you make him take it out and redo it when you get the Building control officers advice.

I agree with what is aaid above, he seems to be confusing vertical and horizontal angles - I doubt hes an effective student of anything, let alone relatively complex building regulations which usually require some basic training to get along with. Dont ask him how the roughness of the internal bore affects the use of minimum gradients, you may get a recipe for 'sausage' soup.

Edited by jimmydean
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Hi just wondered if any plumbers on here could advise,

just had a Wallace cupboard knocked through which held a waste pipe from upstairs, the plumber reckons it has to be a 45 degree angle which has left us with a pipe sticking out a good 8 inches from the wall pic attached.

Thanks in advance Ratus

words fail me....

 

that isnt exactly proffesional.

 

best of luck getting it sorted! :good:

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That is unacceptable work, I would condem that in an instant. Believe it or not you can have to steep a fall on a pipe. I am happy to be corrected but if the pipe is too steep the water moves quicker than the solids and this can cause blockages.

 

Check your ceiling joists and see if you can run the pipe in the ceiling zone above. Part H of the building regs (available online for anyone to view) is all about drainage and a quick glance would suggest a connection branch can have a fall of 18-90mm per m run. So a Saltings said a 1:40 gradient would be sufficient.

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

Jbob

 

I agree that it won't block - but it may cause issues downstream. experience has taught me that 1:40 really is the ideal gradient for foul flow - but that "we" can usually drop to 1:60 for short distances - I won't work below this.

 

There is a 'self -cleansing' velocity which dictates the pipes minimum fall, from memory (poor) its 1 in 70 for foul and 1 in 120 for SW sewers.

In foul sewers where the speed of flow is too great, a series of steps is introduced to reduce the hydraulic energy and slow the flow down. Usually this occurs where there is a good carrying flow. in houses, a short section of almost flat is hydraulically not a problem, 1 in 70 e.g. gives only 4 " fall in 7 metres. No maximum fall is specified (as far as I remember) since 1 in 70 is often close to the site constraints. It is almost 30 years since I read that though !!

 

In my considerable experience of dealing with ****, the above posts and Saltings initial reply are on the money.

 

So, IMHO, rip it out NOW, and do it properly.

 

Don't even get me started on the aesthetics of it - *** !! its just madness.

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Evening guys, here is the almost finished job, just requires rubbing down painting etc..

 

Sorry it's dark, sparky not finished all the lights yet.

 

As for paying him, the Mrs is paying for the alteration, and doesn't want agro from him, as I'm away soon and it was a convenient time to get the alterations done.

As stated earlier i'm going to speak to the Building Regs Officer, show him the pic posted on here and see what he says.

 

I will keep you updated on what the Building Regs Officer says, if I get the same response from him as I have on PW, he will be named, to prevent anyone else experiencing his 40 years of 'Plumbing skills??'

 

again I appreciate all your time to advise, and pass on your expertise / experience.

 

Ratus

post-4601-0-96864900-1427923814_thumb.jpg

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Tightchoke, yes I still have the original pics and a few more which I'll be showing them, this is going to be interesting.

We where planning on having a small boxed area on both sides, on the left where the work surfaces finish and on the right where the waste pipe would be, no where as big as this.

 

Cheers Ratus

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That has stopped a lot of light & makes it look like two rooms ..I really would not be parting with any of my hard earned until that was significantly improved ...I think you have shown amazing constraint , as above I would be seriously peed off ..hope it comes good

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The original kitchen lights where off due to the sparky, there is plenty of light, and another row of ceiling lights to be installed, but instead of a discreet pillar either side, we now have a arch-type way.

 

Cheers Ratus

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Don't pay til it's sorted simples,

There is no need at all for ALL that boxing in, no need at all mate,

Typical domestic plumber, choosing the easiest no work involved option/route, I bet he gave you the" I'm only the plumber mate" " you need a joiner to sort that out ". Lol

 

Atb

 

Flynny

Edited by flynny
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