Legal Highs

[Catweazle]

its a bit of topic i know but what i really want to know is why on earth anyone would spend time and money looking for how much drugs are in the sewers

 

has nobody anything better to do

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33009682

London - highest Cocaine use. Also centre for international banking. Coincidence ? Of course it is, we all know that drugs are taken by unemployed thieves, not corporate high-fliers on huge salaries and bonuses. Apparently 99.9% * of those rich bankers will soon be dole scrounging smackheads burgling our sheds and shooting up in the park.

 

Or perhaps not.

 

* Figures from KW Made-Up-Statistics Ltd 2015.

[Paddy Galore!]

London - highest Cocaine use. Also centre for international banking. Coincidence ? Of course it is, we all know that drugs are taken by unemployed thieves, not corporate high-fliers on huge salaries and bonuses. Apparently 99.9% * of those rich bankers will soon be dole scrounging smackheads burgling our sheds and shooting up in the park.

 

Or perhaps not.

 

* Figures from KW Made-Up-Statistics Ltd 2015.

lol!

[Danger-Mouse]

London - highest Cocaine use. Also centre for international banking. Coincidence ? Of course it is, we all know that drugs are taken by unemployed thieves, not corporate high-fliers on huge salaries and bonuses. Apparently 99.9% * of those rich bankers will soon be dole scrounging smackheads burgling our sheds and shooting up in the park.

 

Or perhaps not.

 

* Figures from KW Made-Up-Statistics Ltd 2015.

 

:lol:

[overandunder2012]

London - highest Cocaine use. Also centre for international banking. Coincidence ? Of course it is, we all know that drugs are taken by unemployed thieves, not corporate high-fliers on huge salaries and bonuses. Apparently 99.9% * of those rich bankers will soon be dole scrounging smackheads burgling our sheds and shooting up in the park.

 

Or perhaps not.

 

* Figures from KW Made-Up-Statistics Ltd 2015.

[955i]

then you have not read this thread have you,

 

check out post 63, you are obviously blind

 

here is what was stated if you cant be bothered looking

 

" I have always taken drugs on an occasional recreational basis including speed, hash, acid, mushrooms and ecstacy.

 

are you happy now

Yes, and I will still not deny it.

 

Although I gave up the psychotropics many years ago, I still take cannabis occasionally when my arthritis is bad as stated in another post by me as I believe (know) it helps me with my pain and enables me to continue to do my job.

 

What would you rather I do? Spend a fortune on prescription drugs that I don't know what they contain or carry on as I do?

 

I would tell the FEO the same and if he took my guns off me so be it, my health and wellbeing is more important to me than shooting.

 

Just as an aside, all the people saying they wouldn't shoot with people that take cannabis, how many days have you been on where there is a 'snifter' between drives?

 

How do you know how much the guy with the flask had beforehand?

 

You are willing to shoot with people who are potentially under the influence of alcohol, but hate cannabis users.

 

When have you ever been on a shoot and someone has sparked up a spliff?

 

You are hypocrites!!

 

Although I admit it must be awful to own guns and still be scared all the time

Edited June 5, 2015 by 955i

[keg]

I don't shoot with anyone that drinks between drives. After the gins are locked away fine, but as i tell people now when they as kwhy i rarely drink these days, i'm either shooting or driving, neither of which is clever with drink.

 

I can see your logic with pain relief, my later Mother-in-law mentioned it jokingly to her GP.

 

Is it best to take something that whilst in the past has not caused any issues but you still can't g'tee the source or a tested and approved painkiller that has been through rigorous testing?

[overandunder2012]

Yes, and I will still not deny it.

 

Although I gave up the psychotropics many years ago, I still take cannabis occasionally when my arthritis is bad as stated in another post by me as I believe (know) it helps me with my pain and enables me to continue to do my job.

 

What would you rather I do? Spend a fortune on prescription drugs that I don't know what they contain or carry on as I do?

 

I would tell the FEO the same and if he took my guns off me so be it, my health and wellbeing is more important to me than shooting.

 

Just as an aside, all the people saying they wouldn't shoot with people that take cannabis, how many days have you been on where there is a 'snifter' between drives?

 

How do you know how much the guy with the flask had beforehand?

 

You are willing to shoot with people who are potentially under the influence of alcohol, but hate cannabis users.

 

When have you ever been on a shoot and someone has sparked up a spliff?

 

You are hypocrites!!

 

Although I admit it must be awful to own guns and still be scared all the time

im betting your not the only one

[Gordon R]

955i - I don't agree with your view, but admire your honesty.

[pimpkiller]

955i I have no problem at all with what you're doing I and my mother have arthritis and her brother has ms and can understand the need to do something about it yourself by any means necessary. I find prescription medication to be useless or you would have to have something so strong you might as well be a crack-head.

[955i]

I don't shoot with anyone that drinks between drives. After the gins are locked away fine, but as i tell people now when they as kwhy i rarely drink these days, i'm either shooting or driving, neither of which is clever with drink.

 

I can see your logic with pain relief, my later Mother-in-law mentioned it jokingly to her GP.

 

Is it best to take something that whilst in the past has not caused any issues but you still can't g'tee the source or a tested and approved painkiller that has been through rigorous testing?

Tested and approved on who and by who?

 

You really trust governments and pharmaceutical companies to tell you the truth?

 

Look how many ministers have financial interests in companies like Glaxo-Smithkline and then ask yourself where their best interests are served.

 

I seriously can't believe the blinkered thinking of many on this forum who I initially thought were down to earth right minded people

[955i]

955i - I don't agree with your view, but admire your honesty.

 

 

955i I have no problem at all with what you're doing I and my mother have arthritis and her brother has ms and can understand the need to do something about it yourself by any means necessary. I find prescription medication to be useless or you would have to have something so strong you might as well be a crack-head.

Thankyou both.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I tell things honestly and really don't believe I have anything to hide.

 

Everyone saying 'but its against the law', how many of you have signed the repeal the hunting ban petition?

 

Its the law, same as the (wrongful) law against cannabis.

 

You can't be for one and against the other, the law is the law.

[keg]

Tested and approved on who and by who?

 

You really trust governments and pharmaceutical companies to tell you the truth?

 

Look how many ministers have financial interests in companies like Glaxo-Smithkline and then ask yourself where their best interests are served.

 

I seriously can't believe the blinkered thinking of many on this forum who I initially thought were down to earth right minded people

I try and keep a balance between healthy cynicism and listening to experts. Tested by companies over a longer period than stuff off the streets. Yes they get it wrong sometimes, but rarely.

 

A close friend is head of clinical research at an independent testing company and having known her since i was 17, whilst i don't understand what she does and how she does it, she is independent.

 

Whilst I admire your honesty, I would rather risk a prescribed drug with known side effects in certain cases rather than ( and i understand your point about pain etc) buying something i don't know the origin of.

 

You obviously are ok with whatever you take, how do you know others are when they take it for the first time.

 

It's not not blinkered thinking, it's a balanced view.

[955i]

I try and keep a balance between healthy cynicism and listening to experts. Tested by companies over a longer period than stuff off the streets. Yes they get it wrong sometimes, but rarely.

 

A close friend is head of clinical research at an independent testing company and having known her since i was 17, whilst i don't understand what she does and how she does it, she is independent.

 

Whilst I admire your honesty, I would rather risk a prescribed drug with known side effects in certain cases rather than ( and i understand your point about pain etc) buying something i don't know the origin of.

 

You obviously are ok with whatever you take, how do you know others are when they take it for the first time.

 

It's not not blinkered thinking, it's a balanced view.

Fair enough, but the beneficial qualities of plants is nothing new, they have been known about for thousands of years

 

Pharmaceutical companies telling you their product is better is nothing more than money making.

 

Look into it, you probably have better medicine in your garden than the NHS can provide

[keg]

Sis in law practises homeopathy in NZ ( she works as a nurse in a hospice) so i do see it from both sides but getting back on track, homeopathy is a world away from illegal drugs.

[welsh1]

It makes me laugh this distinction between legal and illegal drugs.

I take tablets that would make the normal person fall to his knees,yet they allow me to operate as a normal functioning human being.if there was a drug that was illegal that could make me operate normally and there was no legal equivalent then you can bet that would be taking that if it meant i could continue to operate as i do now. I have an uncle(well he joined the army with my Dad)and was alwats called uncle who was gifted with his hands, a brilliant welder,painter ,darts plater, fisherman,but he got arthritis in his hands,but cannabis can challenge his arthritis,he went to jail for 4 months,for the crime of using an illegal drug,

There are lots of grey areas in the drug world.

[islandgun]

It makes me laugh this distinction between legal and illegal drugs.

 

I take tablets that would make the normal person fall to his knees,yet they allow me to operate as a normal functioning human being.if there was a drug that was illegal that could make me operate normally and there was no legal equivalent then you can bet that would be taking that if it meant i could continue to operate as i do now. I have an uncle(well he joined the army with my Dad)and was alwats called uncle who was gifted with his hands, a brilliant welder,painter ,darts plater, fisherman,but he got arthritis in his hands,but cannabis can challenge his arthritis,he went to jail for 4 months,for the crime of using an illegal drug,

 

There are lots of grey areas in the drug world.

this is basically what i was going to say, if I was seriously ill (which thankfully I'm not) I would take legal/illegal/homeopathic/ anything that it took, to be honest , poor show with your uncle, I suspect half the jury and the judge were up to more serious crime

[evo]

Yes, and I will still not deny it.

 

Although I gave up the psychotropics many years ago, I still take cannabis occasionally when my arthritis is bad as stated in another post by me as I believe (know) it helps me with my pain and enables me to continue to do my job.

but you are breaking the law

 

What would you rather I do? Spend a fortune on prescription drugs that I don't know what they contain or carry on as I do?

just read the leaflet inside,,it tells you exactly what is in it ,,,it also tells you the possible side effects

 

I would tell the FEO the same and if he took my guns off me so be it, my health and wellbeing is more important to me than shooting.

I did think you where honest till you wrote that,, tell your feo the same,,,,whatever,,,,oh and yes you would lose your guns if you did which you obviously havn,t, smoking pot is nothing to be proud of (that's what I tell my kids )

 

Just as an aside, all the people saying they wouldn't shoot with people that take cannabis, how many days have you been on where there is a 'snifter' between drives?

??

 

How do you know how much the guy with the flask had beforehand?

 

I don't but if they are foolish enough to drink and drive then they deserve the book to be thrown at them

 

You are willing to shoot with people who are potentially under the influence of alcohol, but hate cannabis users.

 

I will not shoot with anyone under the influence of alcohol, i don't hate cannabis users i disagree with them breaking the law and being a certificate holder, their licence should be revoked for not being law abiding and repeatedly boasting how good cannabis is when they know full well its not , but what makes me laugh most is when a medical condition is used for an excuse to take it,, there are prescription drugs out there that could be used and most importantly they are LEGAL

 

When have you ever been on a shoot and someone has sparked up a spliff?

 

never and if someone did then i would instantly let them know how i felt and if they didn,t listen i would have no hesitation in ringing the police,,they should NOT be in charge of a firearm whilst smoking any drug and certainly ILLEGAL ones

 

You are hypocrites!!

 

that's your opinion, but one thing i will say is i am 100% law abiding

 

Although I admit it must be awful to own guns and still be scared all the time

 

when you don't break the law you have nothing to fear,,so i,m sorry but that must be your paranoia from smoking the illegal stuff

i,ve answered your post

 

best wishes

[Danger-Mouse]

Yes, someone who takes cannabis for pain relief is breaking the law.

 

However there are many cases where for the law to be changed people have had to break it. The Suffragettes securing votes for women is one that immediately leaps to mind. The formation of trade unions, the independence of the United States of America, the fall of the Berlin wall. . . I dare say I could find many more.

 

All momentous historical events that are ultimately almost certainly more significant than the legalisation of marijuana but nonetheless they demonstrate the point. Sometimes to change the law you need a lot of people to break it.

 

I`m not suggesting you should promote the legalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. Obviously that argument is not going to wash with you and I can respect that, as I`ve said on several occasions in this thread "each to their own".

 

However to continually repeat that it`s wrong to take cannabis because it`s illegal when someone is saying that this illegal drug helps them to function in daily life is at best a blinkered view. Cannabis has been used as a pain relief for something like 5,000 years. There are many studies that suggest cannabis can help in various areas of medicine, pain relief being one of them. In this case it can be used instead of opiate based pharmaceuticals which are without doubt far more habit forming and often less effective. Instead of taking that simplistic view that using marijuana is wrong you should be pressing for more research into it`s properties so that those who find those same properties effective can use it legally.

 

There will be much resistence for the research into medical marijuana even by pharmaceutuical companies simply because marijuana is a non-patentable herb. Therefore as the companies can`t hope to make vast fortunes from it they will be reluctant to invest in any serious research. It seems highly likely that if this were not the case then governments would be receiving a great deal more pressure from those self same companies to legalise that research. All we can hope for is that research in other more enlightened countries will eventually lead to marijuana based products that will be legalised or at least allowed to be prescribed/sold as none licensed drugs here. Which I believe is already the case with a few products.

 

Here are a few viewpoints/studies on the medical use of marijuana. Most are positive, although a few do point out the negatives of using it.

 

http://www.harborsidehealthcenter.com/learn/chronic-pain-medical-cannabis.html

 

http://www.webmd.com/fibromyalgia/guide/fibromyalgia-and-medical-marijuana

 

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/08August/Pages/cannabis-and-chronic-nerve-pain.aspx

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11041397/Why-not-let-cannabis-ease-sufferers-pain.html

 

And for those that can`t be bothered to read through those links here`s an extract from the last one. . .

 

The letters columns of The Daily Telegraph do not immediately spring to mind as a rallying point for the liberalisation of this country’s drugs laws. But two correspondents yesterday drew attention to what must be the most irrational and unjust restriction of all: the ban on the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes.

Just as there is plenty of evidence that cannabis is harmful (as, indeed, are tobacco and alcohol) it also has palliative qualities. People suffering from multiple sclerosis, for instance, find that cannabis, or substances based on the drug, help relieve muscular pain. Jacquie Langham, an MS sufferer from Holt in Norfolk, wrote about how she had been forced to buy Sativex, a legal cannabinoid that is administered in spray form, from the Internet because two GPs would not prescribe it for her.

“I could scream with frustration and desperation,” she added. Why should people be expected to endure pain when the wherewithal exists to relieve it; or be forced to break the law to obtain a natural substance that will make them feel better?

 

Think about it. Ignore that little angel on your shoulder that says it`s illegal so it must be wrong. If it were you or a loved one of yours that was in pain wouldn`t you want them to have the best possible relief that was available?

 

I know I would.

[loriusgarrulus]

http://www.mstrust.org.uk/information/publications/factsheets/sativex.jsp#whocan

 

This is from MS trust page on Sativex. Which can be legally prescribed by Doctors for MS suffers.

 

This type of drug is effective also for types of arthritis, but is not legal for that even though the pain control dosage is far below the level needed to get high.

[Scully]

Yes, someone who takes cannabis for pain relief is breaking the law.

 

However there are many cases where for the law to be changed people have had to break it. The Suffragettes securing votes for women is one that immediately leaps to mind. The formation of trade unions, the independence of the United States of America, the fall of the Berlin wall. . . I dare say I could find many more.

 

All momentous historical events that are ultimately almost certainly more significant than the legalisation of marijuana but nonetheless they demonstrate the point. Sometimes to change the law you need a lot of people to break it.

 

I`m not suggesting you should promote the legalisation of cannabis for recreational purposes. Obviously that argument is not going to wash with you and I can respect that, as I`ve said on several occasions in this thread "each to their own".

 

However to continually repeat that it`s wrong to take cannabis because it`s illegal when someone is saying that this illegal drug helps them to function in daily life is at best a blinkered view. Cannabis has been used as a pain relief for something like 5,000 years. There are many studies that suggest cannabis can help in various areas of medicine, pain relief being one of them. In this case it can be used instead of opiate based pharmaceuticals which are without doubt far more habit forming and often less effective. Instead of taking that simplistic view that using marijuana is wrong you should be pressing for more research into it`s properties so that those who find those same properties effective can use it legally.

 

There will be much resistence for the research into medical marijuana even by pharmaceutuical companies simply because marijuana is a non-patentable herb. Therefore as the companies can`t hope to make vast fortunes from it they will be reluctant to invest in any serious research. It seems highly likely that if this were not the case then governments would be receiving a great deal more pressure from those self same companies to legalise that research. All we can hope for is that research in other more enlightened countries will eventually lead to marijuana based products that will be legalised or at least allowed to be prescribed/sold as none licensed drugs here. Which I believe is already the case with a few products.

 

Here are a few viewpoints/studies on the medical use of marijuana. Most are positive, although a few do point out the negatives of using it.

 

http://www.harborsidehealthcenter.com/learn/chronic-pain-medical-cannabis.html

 

http://www.webmd.com/fibromyalgia/guide/fibromyalgia-and-medical-marijuana

 

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/08August/Pages/cannabis-and-chronic-nerve-pain.aspx

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11041397/Why-not-let-cannabis-ease-sufferers-pain.html

 

And for those that can`t be bothered to read through those links here`s an extract from the last one. . .

 

The letters columns of The Daily Telegraph do not immediately spring to mind as a rallying point for the liberalisation of this country’s drugs laws. But two correspondents yesterday drew attention to what must be the most irrational and unjust restriction of all: the ban on the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes.

Just as there is plenty of evidence that cannabis is harmful (as, indeed, are tobacco and alcohol) it also has palliative qualities. People suffering from multiple sclerosis, for instance, find that cannabis, or substances based on the drug, help relieve muscular pain. Jacquie Langham, an MS sufferer from Holt in Norfolk, wrote about how she had been forced to buy Sativex, a legal cannabinoid that is administered in spray form, from the Internet because two GPs would not prescribe it for her.

“I could scream with frustration and desperation,” she added. Why should people be expected to endure pain when the wherewithal exists to relieve it; or be forced to break the law to obtain a natural substance that will make them feel better?

 

Think about it. Ignore that little angel on your shoulder that says it`s illegal so it must be wrong. If it were you or a loved one of yours that was in pain wouldn`t you want them to have the best possible relief that was available?

 

I know I would.

Good post.

We certainly have some blinkered legislation in this country. I remember a Radio 2 programme I listened to where an MP was describing how he was trying to have the laws changed in the UK as regards to cancer treatments. His wife had cancer and he was constantly frustrated that her doctors couldn't prescribe any treatment other than chemotherapy; they were actually forbidden by law to do so and could be struck off for prescribing any treatment other than chemo'. I find that amazing.

It wasn't that long ago the parents of a child were arrested in this country for removing their child from hospital care to try and get him the treatment they felt his cancer needed in another country.

There are other examples also but those are for another thread.

[evo]

dangermouse, I am totally against people with FIREARMS being involved in illegal activities ie , smoking pot or taking any other ILLEGAL substance whilst being a firearm certificate holder,

 

nothing you say or print will change my view on that,,

 

now as for people smoking cannabis , I couldn,t care less really, if they have a medical condition and cannabis helps them then good on them, but if they are prepared to break the law then I,m sorry but they should not hold a firearms certificate,

 

it ok spouting on here" I did this" and "I take that" ,,,, try explaining that to your feo and see what he has to say about it,

 

drugs ruin lives and families and also communities, someone taking drugs because they are in pain well they have my sympathy with regards the pain but sorry I hope they get caught,

 

I get fed up people using medical conditions as an excuse to smoke pot, sorry but its how I feel, I have watched it first hand destroy lives, I don't agree that it leads to class A drugs BUT it does make you associate with the wrong crowd which MIGHT lead the person down the wrong path,

 

people who suffer with their health have my sympathy, people whom deal,take or promote drugs in a good light deserve everything they get,

 

995i

can I just say I wish you all the best with your arthritis and I am not getting at you or anyone on a personal note, but sorry mate we,ll have to disagree because I do not believe in drugs in any way shape or form,,,but that's just me

 

atb Evo

[keg]

Good post.

We certainly have some blinkered legislation in this country. I remember a Radio 2 programme I listened to where an MP was describing how he was trying to have the laws changed in the UK as regards to cancer treatments. His wife had cancer and he was constantly frustrated that her doctors couldn't prescribe any treatment other than chemotherapy; they were actually forbidden by law to do so and could be struck off for prescribing any treatment other than chemo'. I find that amazing.

It wasn't that long ago the parents of a child were arrested in this country for removing their child from hospital care to try and get him the treatment they felt his cancer needed in another country.

There are other examples also but those are for another thread.

I don't think anyone would disagree with helping anyone in pain or ill but getting back to the original point, most drugs mess with lives and can cause untold agonies and pain.

[Scully]

 

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with helping anyone in pain or ill but getting back to the original point, most drugs mess with lives and can cause untold agonies and pain.

 

Totally agree, which is exactly why there is much debate over why some are still perfectly legal.

[The Mighty Prawn]

This topic has run its course, the strongly opinionated will not listen to others opinions and debate has long since died.

 

As my parting shot to all the rabid hand wringers screaming how they couldn't bear anyone who does illegal things having a gun, there are two possible outcomes to this, the first is you are the epitome of a perfect human, you never break any laws whatsoever, you've never once tinkered with electricity without being a competent person, you never speed or stop in a yellow box junction, you watch anything you have recorded on your sky+ once and then delete it - if all these are true then you are indeed an inspiration to us all and more power to your elbow.

 

The second, and dare I say it more likely outcome, is you have made your mind up and no amount of information or opinion will change that. To these people I wish good luck in their world where nothing ever changes and you always do what you always did, spare a thought for those in pain who can't get the medicine they need because a small cabal decided it would hurt their pockets if it was legal. The alcohol/drugs debate is ridiculously complex and to summarise it into legal=good illegal=bad is more short sighted than Mr magoo.

 

As was stated by someone above, there are many things that were illegal that were challenged by enough people to make them legal, gay marriage,votes for women etc but you probably don't agree with them either do you? Grab your copy of the daily Mail tomorrow and have a good day being outraged, it must be a lonely place there in bitter town.

[Danger-Mouse]

An interesting article about Portugal where all drugs were decriminalized in 2001.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago--and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

 

And another on the proposed legislation of legal highs.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/this-governments-ban-on-legal-highs-is-mindbendingly-stupid-10287781.html