RedRobin Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is not a 'Loaded Question' But can I ask why Fox Red Lab pups are Demanding far more ££'s than their EQUALLY well bred kennel mates ? Surely its not a fashion thing ? Like the 'ginger babies' in the Viszla world I commonly read about on Facebook Groups ? confused . com ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes , they are fashionable , nothing much more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is disgusting that people will pay more, and charge more, for a certain colour. A dog is a dog. I also do not agree with people paying more, and charging more, for bitches. A bitch pup costs exactly the same to produce/rear so why should it cost more?. Money,money,money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is disgusting that people will pay more, and charge more, for a certain colour. A dog is a dog. I also do not agree with people paying more, and charging more, for bitches. A bitch pup costs exactly the same to produce/rear so why should it cost more?. Money,money,money. Market forces. Folk will charge what other folk are prepared to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Market forces. Folk will charge what other folk are prepared to pay. Too true sir. But doesn't that make you sick?. Cars, tv's, fridges, jeans, prices are dictated by market forces but working dogs should never ever be. Working dogs should be immune to such rubbish. All hunters/shooters should be together in this. To me a seller that charges a fellow sportsman more for a colour or a sex is basically saying " **** you, I will get out of you what I can". Edited June 6, 2015 by cocker boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Too true sir. But doesn't that make you sick?. Cars, tv's, fridges, jeans, prices are dictated by market forces but working dogs should never ever be. Working dogs should be immune to such rubbish. All hunters/shooters should be together in this. To me a seller that charges a fellow sportsman more for a colour or a sex is basically saying " **** you, I will get out of you what I can". Trouble is very few of the total of fox reds being bred are going to working homes , most are going to the fashionistas among us. While without doubt there are some very good red working dogs there are far more being bred with mediocre pedigrees just for the colour because the breeder knows they can ask a premium , to be fair most of the reasonably priced ones I have seen are from working stock where the breeder thinks a working home is more important than a few more quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is disgusting that people will pay more, and charge more, for a certain colour. A dog is a dog. I also do not agree with people paying more, and charging more, for bitches. A bitch pup costs exactly the same to produce/rear so why should it cost more?. Money,money,money. What you find it you have a litter is the bitch pups usually sell first then you have the dog pups. I think traditionally people sold them cheaper to try and sell them quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) What you find it you have a litter is the bitch pups usually sell first then you have the dog pups. I think traditionally people sold them cheaper to try and sell them quicker. You could look at it like I suppose. But I think people charge more for a bitch rather than less for a dog. That then fuels the market even more with people thinking " I have spent £xxx on a bitch so I will get some money back". Any idiot can earn money from a bitch, that is a simple fact, but not many earn through a stud dog. And most people that breed could buy in better stuff so why breed?. Money, money, money. The last 3 cockers I have bought in have been bought on the breeders credentials/dogs pedigree and I have collected the pup not even knowing what, nor caring what, colour it is. Edited June 6, 2015 by cocker boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 There was a big kick off on a facebook group a couple of weeks ago about a litter advertised. They were wanting £700 a pup, the bitch had no health tests & the dog, although fully tested has thrown pups with elbow scores, some seriously high hip scores. Neither parents had ever worked. The dog is consistently advertised on the free pet sites as a stud, he's had more bitches than most FTCH dogs currently at stud. Actually finding a dark yellow pup that meets all the health test requirements & that has a decent pedigree is a very difficult purchase to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Why breed now there is an interesting question. I had a litter as I liked the bitch I had, found the best stud dog possible had the recommended tests done and kept a pup. It was enjoyable but bloody hard work, if you were doing it purely for the money why bother with working dogs? There is far more money in breeding oodles for the pet market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 But is it any different to cockers demanding far more money now for a pup than springers? 20 years ago it was the other way round. Can now get a decent springer pup for not a lot of money. All fashion or even the rise in HPR's I know a fairly respected cocker breeder/trialler that after 30 odd years breeding them has just as there is soooo many pups on the market and asking for decent money for them. Yet i also know a beat keeper who has decent cockers doesnae even advertise them as working dogs now and just sells to the pet puppy market and can sell a litter 2 or 3 times over easily. The other problem u may find with the good fox red dogs is they may soon become interbred or closely related to any other good fox red dogs, i know a local fox/deep yellow FTCH lab, which is an absolutely cracking dog, but he has been a very busy boy and lined most decent red/yellow bitches in this area as well as a lot of rubbish ones If it's the same in other areas u will soon find in 2-3 generations time all the really good fox red dogs are related to a small number of exceptional stud dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well here's one! A steel delivery driver the other day saw my kennels and Said " I breed labs" , "Oh yes what type for show or work?" "Fox red ones" . "Ok so neither then! :rolleyes:". " the bitch has a hip score of 5"", very good but a good dog to my eyes just cant be in the wrong colour, it has to be very secondary to its function Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think there's been a spate of breeding fox reds for colour not ability recently. It'll soon be another fad/colour soon I'm sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well here's one! A steel delivery driver the other day saw my kennels and Said " I breed labs" , "Oh yes what type for show or work?" "Fox red ones" . "Ok so neither then! :rolleyes:". " the bitch has a hip score of 5"", very good but a good dog to my eyes just cant be in the wrong colour, it has to be very secondary to its function That's about right. Money, money, money. And people say there isn't any money in breeding pups!!!!!!. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 85,909 pups from the gundog group were registered last year with the KC. For the hard of reading that is almost 86 THOUSAND pups. In one year !!!!!. That is just ONE group out of SEVEN. And people STILL tell you that there is no money in breeding dogs !!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I wonder how many in the same group die of old age or illness each year and are abandoned or in Rescues. Could be interesting to compare the data. Edited June 8, 2015 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I wonder how many in the same group die of old age or illness each year and are abandoned or in Rescues. Could be interesting to compare the data. Could be interesting I suppose but it is totally irrelevant against the fact that people STILL say there is no money in breeding pups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Alright alright keep yer hair on lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Alright alright keep yer hair on lol Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Could be interesting I suppose but it is totally irrelevant against the fact that people STILL say there is no money in breeding pups. There isn't unless you set out with that goal in mind, the guy in question I mention certainly had that as his priority. Use the bitch till she is unable to register more litters, then sell her off or breed more unregistered three litters of six from one bitch? Seven hundred a pop and keeping that bitch for 14 years sort of diminishes your returns but what do they care its not like she is worth any more to them once she has done her bit they get rid, unlike genuine working or even show breeders looking for a better animal for their purpose. I tend to ask "why did you choose to breed from your bitch?" then read between the lines and go off what you see before you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 There isn't unless you set out with that goal in mind, the guy in question I mention certainly had that as his priority. Uh oh you'll have cocker boy rocking, gurning and gibbering in a corner with that comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 There isn't unless you set out with that goal in mind, You can keep that quote for your customers. I have had dogs and been around dogs long enough to know that is complete and utter nonsense. WHY oh WHY will people NOT admit to making money from breeding pups??. Can anyone answer that question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Cocker boy the breeder my last dog came from spends over £500 a month on dog food. They had 2 litters last year totalling 12 dogs. They kept 1 back and imported 2 others. So £6000 a year on food plus vets bills and every other expense that goes with breeding, keeping and working 15-20 dogs I believe them when they say they are not making any money from breeding dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Cocker boy the breeder my last dog came from spends over £500 a month on dog food. They had 2 litters last year totalling 12 dogs. They kept 1 back and imported 2 others. So £6000 a year on food plus vets bills and every other expense that goes with breeding, keeping and working 15-20 dogs I believe them when they say they are not making any money from breeding dogs. Though I see your point , a litter from one bitch almost certainly makes some money , I cannot see where you can say its not because you are feeding another 15 dogs out of it ! Though I am sure there is not as much profit in it as some think the amount of pups available would be far less if they could not be bred for profit and there are plenty making a mint from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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