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islandgun

European immigration good or bad for Britain ?

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all credit to your friend and who would blame them if they graduated and went to a better paid/exciting place to work I know I would, perhaps it would be advisable to offer free training to high end students with a written undertaking that they would work in this country for ex number of years after they have graduated

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One of my friends is at medical school, and it was by no means an easy ride to get. Entry requirements are stupidly high, compared to normal degrees. He had to get A grades at A-Level in chemistry, maths and biology, which is no easy feat, and then a medical school would only take him if he had practical experience, so he volunteered to work in a hospice for a whole year. He could have lazed around in his A-levels, gone to uni to "study" media or film studies, and spent 3 years on the lash, like a large number of students do.

 

I think the higher education system has a lot to do with the UK's lack of medical professionals. The Labour government brought in new degree types in the late 90's and early 2000s to tempt more young people into going into further education. These were such as Film Studies, Media, Fashion, Photography etc, ie. Nothing that actually provides skills. Kids started knocking useful degrees on the head, such as medicine, engineering, the sciences, and replacing them with "fun" degrees, such as "Fashion Journalism", or "Animation". It could be something to do with the rise of the liberal "do what you love to do" mentality, rather than the much more conservative "if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right" mentality. Lots of graduates, just a lot with Micky Mouse degrees.

I take umbrage at your last paragraph. All of those degrees can and do lead into useful, paid employment, and they do provide a skill which is grounded in a deep knowledge and understanding of the subject. Does a degree in English literature give you a skill? Will a phd in pure maths somehow equip you for gainful employment? Of course not.

 

Hopefully your friend will stay in the Uk and not, like the other 1500 doctors a year, move to Australia.

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I don't think we should copy Australia and Canada per se as we are different in many ways, but we should be looking at countries all over the world to see what works for them. The truth is that all countries have varying numbers of immigrants and the UK is middle table at worst so really the immigrant question has been overblown for political gain. There are problems but as is often the case perception is larger than the reality.

 

A customer of mine spent 3 weeks in Australia last month having some work done with his lower back problems (he paid for it ) he was so impressed he has decided to emigrate there with his family.

I told him that they would not have him as he is too old (62)

He said he would apply for a working visa,then go and work on his brother in laws farm,then when the visa expires ,get his relative to say he is 'indispensible '

He would be granted a longer stay and would be able to bring his family over,after 5 years apply for citizenship.

He could be talking out of his rear end,but this is the mentality.

They are iranian immigrants who did exactly this when they came to the UK 30 years ago.

 

While in Canada last year we were speaking with a few people about immigration,they have a massive labour shortage over there and are not shy about importing cheap foreign workers,Phillipinos mostly.

The skilled workers can come from anywhere in the world,lots of Indians ,Pakistanis ,some Africans and quite a few Brits.

They are a pretty diverse country anyway,with a strong native ( first nation peoples) presence,lots of ethnic Canadian Chinese ect.

The difference is, citizenship is not given out freely,you can use their NHS but financial benefits are virtually non existent for non nationals.

But most Canadians are still worried about immigration getting out of control.

The people we spoke to said they wouldnt vote for a party that was not tough on migrants.

 

What Im saying,is the points system isnt a fix all solution,and making benefits difficult for migrants would not deter them too much either if they believe they can find work.

Edited by Rewulf

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I guess we are talking Eastern Europeans........send them back and make sure no more come here.

 

It depends on where you are as to how you are affected.

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Adopt a points system, let in those we need and have a trade or skill and will pay tax in to the country. Remove and stop all who seek our benefits!

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Adopt a points system, let in those we need and have a trade or skill and will pay tax in to the country. Remove and stop all who seek our benefits!

And those who are unskilled/low skilled

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And those who are unskilled/low skilled

Would you like the same thing to happen to Brits in the rest of Europe?

 

A few years ago a friend of mine took his family to Portugal on a whim and set up as a gardener, he knew virtually nothing about plants but he works very hard in the heat cutting grass, hedges and putting up fences. He would certainly be classed as low skilled so should he be sent home or stopped from working?

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Man kind..the greediest creature on the planet…give him metal and paper , call it money and he becomes the most selfish **** ever to set foot on earth, then brain wash him with a bit of religion...

give him an average of 70 years to live, and what does he do……****** wastes it on protecting a thing he can't take with him in death, :lol:

 

don't you just love selfishness and greed..

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I guess we are talking Eastern Europeans........send them back and make sure no more come here.

 

Really ? Send them back? what, all of them? Your name is very apt. Watch the country dissolve if "we" send all of "them" back. The most ridiculous post on here for many years

Edited by digger

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Cant just target immigrants

Example a person on £12600 a year can not claim Working Tax Credit but pays tax on income over £10600, but is contributing by paying tax.

Immigrant or lazy UK resident earns £10600 so pays zero tax,yet gets topped up with £2000 of Working Tax Credit ( free of tax)

This is what's wrong,the system is there and they know how to abuse it and get the most out of it.

Trying to get these people weaned of WTC is a night mare and it's the system that has created this benefit balancing society we have today. Why would you take a job fir £12600 when you would have to pay tax on £2000.

Take a job for £10600 get topped up with £2000 and pay zero tax.

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I guess we are talking Eastern Europeans........send them back and make sure no more come here.

It depends on where you are as to how you are affected.

i'm an Eastern European. Would like to stay. This is my home now. Paying tax (lot). No benefits. Would You let me stay, Master?

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Man kind..the greediest creature on the planet…give him metal and paper , call it money and he becomes the most selfish **** ever to set foot on earth, then brain wash him with a bit of religion...

give him an average of 70 years to live, and what does he do……****** wastes it on protecting a thing he can't take with him in death, :lol:

 

don't you just love selfishness and greed..

agreed :lol: you cant take anything with you in death except perhaps to live on in the memory of others, it would be desirable if that memory was good because you earned it in a life well spent

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Cant just target immigrants

Example a person on £12600 a year can not claim Working Tax Credit but pays tax on income over £10600, but is contributing by paying tax.

Immigrant or lazy UK resident earns £10600 so pays zero tax,yet gets topped up with £2000 of Working Tax Credit ( free of tax)

This is what's wrong,the system is there and they know how to abuse it and get the most out of it.

Trying to get these people weaned of WTC is a night mare and it's the system that has created this benefit balancing society we have today. Why would you take a job fir £12600 when you would have to pay tax on £2000.

Take a job for £10600 get topped up with £2000 and pay zero tax.

The vast majority of the immigrants I come into contact with on a daily basis are working cash in hand, so how about this as an alternative?, Earn £25K plus but tell the authorities you are only working 16 hours and declare £8K. Then claim every benefit under the sun, safe in the knowledge that no matter how implausable the story they tell nobody will check up on them.

 

Easy peasy! Free money, free housing, no tax

Edited by Vince Green

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i'm an Eastern European. Would like to stay. This is my home now. Paying tax (lot). No benefits. Would You let me stay, Master?

 

Yes!

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The vast majority of the immigrants I come into contact with on a daily basis are working cash in hand, so how about this as an alternative, Earn £25K plus but tell the authorities you are only working 16 hours and declare £8K. Then claim every benefit under the sun, safe in the knowledge that no matter how implausable the story they tell nobody will check up on them.

 

Easy peasy!

Yes I agree but you would be surprised how many UK resident self employed only put half their earnings through their tax returns.Its not just immigrants that are abusing the system.

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Yes I agree but you would be surprised how many UK resident self employed only put half their earnings through their tax returns.Its not just immigrants that are abusing the system.

This.

 

Tax avoidance is illegal no matter what nationality you are.

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This.

 

Tax avoidance is illegal no matter what nationality you are.

Its not so much that people are fiddling their tax, and claim benefits they are not entitled to that annoys me, although it does bug me, its the fact that people can get away it so easily. The risk of them getting caught and the penalties when they do are nothing compared to what they can so easily make out of it. The chances of getting caught are zilch

 

A few thousand more investigation officers would be nice, surely they would earn their keep many times over..

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i'm an Eastern European. Would like to stay. This is my home now. Paying tax (lot). No benefits. Would You let me stay, Master?

No....this island is crowded enough....

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Yes I agree but you would be surprised how many UK resident self employed only put half their earnings through their tax returns.Its not just immigrants that are abusing the system.

Now now you will have an irate motorbike rider foaming at the mouth at the very suggestion you make? and start saying you have a chip on your shoulder.

 

KW

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Yes I agree but you would be surprised how many UK resident self employed only put half their earnings through their tax returns.Its not just immigrants that are abusing the system.

Is this your own opinion or do you have a link with which we can verify this claim?

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I vote good, as it's a two-way flow: ideally I'd be heading OUT of Britain, as we have more rights in the EC as British citizens, than we have in our own country!

 

I'd choose Finland or Sweden anyday.

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Yes I agree but you would be surprised how many UK resident self employed only put half their earnings through their tax returns.Its not just immigrants that are abusing the system.

 

That's largely rubbish. It would be more truthful to state the number of domestic customers who want you to 'do cash' in return for a discount that amounts to what you would have paid in tax anyway so now the workman has earned exactly the same and has taken on all the risk of being found out. Tax evasion isn't worth the risk and undeclared income has to be wasted so it can't be traced.

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^ correct imho so who do they stamp down on? The disabled where fraud is virtually 0 because its easy to do

The incidence of fraud for those claiming DLA/PIP is around 2.4%, the government have said they want to reduce the amount of disabled people claiming it by 24%, easy target springs to mind.

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The incidence of fraud for those claiming DLA/PIP is around 2.4%

 

 

I wonder who dreamt that figure up. They haven't got a clue.

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