bostonmick Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 My post has not implied anytying ? I dont belive i slagged off the 682 good E . My post was for the OP and his buget . Your NOT going to get a newer 682 gold E for a grand . Well not a good one . Where he can get the older one with ease and a mint contidtion one at that and still have change ! So back off and read it again ! I did read your post in the first instance and while I never made any accusation of you slagging off (as you put it)But your last line would infer that the newer Berettas were not as good as the older ones and simply asked what evidence you had to support this theory.So you may wish to hold back on the aggressive tone.This is a forum not a battleground.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Older berettas where better made . But i think you read a bit too much in my comment . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Having experienced owning webley id say no to that... You could pick up a new or pre owned beretta 687 for the budget you have and it would probably be better than a new bettinsoli. Winchester, i have a semi auto sx3 and love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) There are numerous reports of Bettinsoli problems, particularly double firing. They seem to be lottery guns; i.e. you might be lucky or you might not! W & S seem to be pretty rare at clay shoots - I've seen about 1 in the last year - but I believe they're made in Turkey and spares backup could be tricky. The Winchester is always going to be the best pick out of the three on your list although they are quite light guns and that means more recoil. With a £1500 budget you have Miroku, Browning and Beretta models all available new, and their entry level guns are mechanically the same as the higher grades so therefore significantly more robust and reliable than any sub £1000 gun. But are you really sure about buying new? Chances are that within a year or so you'll be looking to replace the guns you buy now, so the advice to pick a pre-loved mid range gun from one of the respected big makers means you will save money and worry down the road and get you better guns to start out with. I would be interested in your source , agreed there was a problem with Bettinsoli about 10 years ago but they have sold thousands since then and no real problems i have heard of except the odd fault that all guns have Edited June 18, 2015 by ChrisAsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I would be interested in your source , agreed there was a problem with Bettinsoli about 10 years ago but they have sold thousands since then and no real problems i have heard of except the odd fault that all guns have They've sold thousands in the last 10 years! Really? Where? My first ever gun was a Bettinsoli, a good friend also had one and since both were such poor & troublesome guns I've always paid attention to any forum threads about them, but it's not an obsession so I can't give you details of exactly where and when, but a search on PW is a pretty good starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Be patient and save your money for a little while. Once you shoot more you will learn that different makes/models will fit you differently. You can't check a gun's fit until you have a consistent gun mount and that takes time to get. If you can find a friendly club where members are willing to let you try their guns it can be beneficial. Whatever you choose to do, good luck. Although it's almost impossible to take in these circumstances, this is very good advice. You wont know whether it fits yet. Therefore get second hand guns now (it being impossible to wait), so that either a) you can resell for a much higher proportion of what you pay than with a new guns when you sell it in six months; or b) it will bother you less being left in the cabinet unshot for the next six years. Garlands, the other side of Tamworth, is an institution, with v knowledgable people, but rather random stock. John Knibbs/countrystore in Shustoke (other side of Coleshill) is these days a very good little gun shop. Gun shop Rugby is another obvious one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 with a £1500 budget per gun, I would be looking at either silver pigeon 1's, or mk38's. that's just down to previous experience though. in all fairness to stevo, I agree that in my opinion the newer berettas at the bottom end of the scale are generally not as good as the old ones, but that doesn't mean that theyre not any good. it just means that the competition is strong and it may be worth looking about.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 As above, with that sort of budget I'd be looking at either Browning, Beretta or Winchester. Much more desirable guns which as a result hold their money better for trade in or resale value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1314 Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thanks for all the info guys. I think I will buy cheap secondhand and practice until I have a consistent mount. Once I have gain some consistency go out and buy a new bigger brand gun and the cheap one I can keep for a bit of rough shooting or if a friend wants to come along for a go. Still unsure as to what to do about her indoor tho. There isn't a great deal of cheap 20's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill425g6 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 If its weight your bothered about there are light weight 12bores on the market and the advantages are you would be using the same cartridges and could be a spare gun if its just a matter of changing a pad or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Chris, I only started 18 months ago, when I selected my gun I was lucky enough to have a friend with 20 odd years experience...he lined 3 brand new guns out on the counter and one 2nd hand, didn't tell me which was which, I dry mounted all of them and picked the second hand one....It was a Beretta 682 Golden E.......I have to say, and only my novice opinion....It's the best gun I've shot with, still got it in the cabinet and never letting it go, paid about £1500.00 for it.....I'm consisting shooting 80% with it....like said before , stick to the big 3 and honestly give the Gold E a chance....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thanks for all the info guys. I think I will buy cheap secondhand and practice until I have a consistent mount. Once I have gain some consistency go out and buy a new bigger brand gun and the cheap one I can keep for a bit of rough shooting or if a friend wants to come along for a go. Still unsure as to what to do about her indoor tho. There isn't a great deal of cheap 20's out there. Chris, for a 20 bore gun take a look at the Franchi Alcione 1. You should be able to pick this up for around £750-£795 new. They are distributed by GMK, the same people who distribute Beretta in this country so are widely stocked and they are also part of the Beretta group I believe. It is a lot of gun for the money and a really nice handling gun too. As has been mentioned, fit is more important and if the gun doesn't fit your wife then it isn't worth buying, but maybe something you can look at. I had one and was very happy with it, I sold it to a mate as I indulged a little and bought a really lovely CG Forum 20g, but if I'm being completely honest I should have stuck with the Franchi. A few forum members have the Franchi and I have not heard anybody complain about it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wilksy Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I've got a bettinsoli diamond x which I have to say is great, probably had 3000 carts through it! And not missed a beat! It was £695 brand new with 3 yrs warranty, that said if I'd had £1500 or even a grand I would have looked at a browning, nice problem to have good luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Just remembered; don't overlook the ATA range of shotguns. They have been manufacturing barrels for Beretta for years and now have their own range. Very good guns by all accounts. There will be a demo' day where anyone can come and try these guns and others on the 22nd August at Gardners Guns on the A7 for Longtown just off the M6 at Jct 44. See you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1314 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 So i took a trip up to Doveridge today to run through first guns with the staff there. Got to say its a great place with a friendly crowed and staff members. I had a chat with the guys in the shop, told them budget and looking for first guns etc. He seemed to think we would be better off starting with new yildiz guns rather then secondhand models. An mx trap for myself and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1314 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 An spz me for the other half. He wasnt trying to push a sale or anything, i can get both guns for the price i was willing to pay for one which he knew. He did say to go to their test day on the 18th where we can try all the guns they sell befor we make a purchase. But he would recomend the yildiz to start with. Just wanted your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I've no experience at all with Yildiz and AFAIK never even seen one, but what I do know is they're cheap and they're made in Turkey. No doubt someone will chime in and say they're great but if you find you or your OH have problems or don't get on with them then you'll take a hit on the resale - always assuming you can actually find a buyer! On this forum you've had advice from several people who've all been in your situation - or near enough - and most agree that for several reasons and with the benefit of hindsight, a decent used Beretta, Browning or Miroku is the best option. If brand new really is important you still have good quality choices from the same 3 makers plus Fabarm which IMO is the pick of the budget guns, mostly thanks to being part of CG. Frankly I'd be very surprised if anyone on here recommends buying 2 new Yildiz guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1314 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Trust me, i am taking all the advice and opinions of the members on board. Im like a sponge, soaking it all up. (either that or im half soaked :-) ) Just curious as to why the guys in the shop would reccomend a new yildiz over a seconghand model. Surely the profit margins are greater on a secondhand gun over a new model when you factor in the trade in price they give on guns. Thought there may be something im missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) If you're going to get a new Yildiz (I've bought two in smaller bores for wife and son in the last year), then just buy one between you, use it for six months till you've got a steady mount and know more what you need, then buy yourself the £2k Browning or Beretta you'll keep for a few years. The one in question being the 20 bore, obviously. Don't listen to people telling you it's a girls' gauge. The truth is that it's the real men who shoot the smaller bores, because we've got nothing to prove. That's actually slightly less true of guns like the Yildiz SPZ ME, as they're specially light and often have smaller stocks. But that doesn't matter. If the wife is a lot shorter than you it may be a problem though?. Practise your mount at home for ten minutes every day; and learn to shoot gun down in the clay ground, will teach you more quickly 'actively' to mount the gun. Google for short video tips on mount, beat etc. Edited June 21, 2015 by Pothunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Chris, I honestly don't know if there was an agenda behind the gun shops recommendations in this case, I would hope not. I have had a look at a few Yildiz guns and although basic in some respects do look to be well made and well sorted guns. I have not heard any tales of woe or regret from those who have bought them and I would have no issue in buying one for myself, but the comment above of losing a bit of cash if you choose to move them on is probably valid. I don't think that you would have difficulty selling them, there are plenty of people who have only a limited budget and they will be bought and sold all day long, but at a price point. Of course the starting price is lower to begin with so the loss won't be penal and if you do choose to go for the Yildiz be certain that you will not shoot a Browning, Beretta or Miroku any better just because they are more expensive, providing the gun fits more or less. You would be buying from a reputable dealer with a good reputation so any issues in the next year or two would be dealt with and as likely will be the case you will want to change to another gun in that timeframe anyway as you gain experience so long term experience is not an issue. No matter if the dealer is maybe being a little biased in directing you to that choice, they are certainly not selling you a pup. Others may choose a different gun, but that is for their own decisions and circumstance, not yours. If getting a couple of new guns gives you and your wife a big smile, gets you out shooting and enjoying that purchase and you can afford it then follow your gut. You will get a hundred slightly different opinions on here, but providing you are not being hoodwinked and you're not, the only opinions that really matter is your own and your good lady's. Stop agonising, make a choice that makes you happy and jump in and start enjoying your new hobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 There is a nice Winchester select II in the gun sales section for £700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 If I was in your situation then I would buy a good used example from one of the big brands, the reason being is that it will hold onto it's value and will be easier to get a good price if you decide to sell(depending on how much you paid). You generally know the quality you are getting and if it does goes wrong then parts are easy to get and gunsmiths will want to work on it. £140 Lanber owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 My lanba sporting lux great gun never missed a beat use it for clays pigeon in fact it does it all and with you're buying budget you could buy enough cartridges to last years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwade545 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I started off with a miroku 800, then "upgraded" to a bettinsoli- it functioned flawlessly and shot well. Sold Miroku for nearly what bought it, sold bettisoli for 1/2 what I bougth it. Had a 20b berretta and sold it for £100 more then I bought it.Now shoot a betetta 682 ltd and yildiz .410 and a few Spanish sxs. The yildz does feel much cheaper. Starting off I would say as others have either buy a cheap gun untill you know what you want and are confident with your gun mount, or but one of the 3 brands, beretta brownibg, miroku as you are unlikely to loose much on them. If you want a 20b the beretta with 28" fixed choke is very light and extremely well balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill425g6 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Three of us in the family shoot and we all use 12 bores Beretta, Browning O/Us and semi autos Beretta, Browning and Benelli. I have a Browning 425g6 which I bought second-hand after they just came out and none of these guns have let us down yet. As for yourself for £1500 per gun I would buy a second-hand O/U from Beretta,Browning,Miroku.Winchester or any of the top brand names You will get a really good quality gun and it will hold its price. As for your better half as I said there are lightweight O/Us on the market and you will be using the same cartridges. Don't buy a cheap new or second-hand gun and then a year later come back and buy the gun you should have bought in the first place. Next step is to get the gun fitted to yourself very important. Next step is to spend what money you have left if any? on a Good instructor and take regular lessons to get your basic technique solid and not develop any bad habits. As with any sport if your basic technique is not good you will only go sofar! PS- What ever a twenty bore can do a 12 bore can do better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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