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Grass roots causing odd behaviour


grrclark
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Folks, my golden retriever is terrible for digging into thick grass clumps and tearing at the roots. Occasionally after he has done that and we are back home after our walk he gets really unsettled and agitated for about 30 - 60 minutes then he settles down again.

 

He will be lying down then jump up, scrape his feet, spin around, vocalise a wee bit then lie down again. Occasionally when lying down he will kick out his legs a wee bit.

 

It is fairly frequent to start with and then tails off, after about an hour he is completely back to normal with no ill effects.

 

It just looks to be regular meadow grass and I have never seen any mushrooms growing in the clumps that he digs at so don't think it is mushroom spores. My gordon setter doesn't really dig at the roots so she is unaffected. I occasionally walk with another person who also has a gordon and she does dig at the same roots and her owner has said that she exhibits the same signs. Other times he could dig at the same clump of grass and no ill effects.

 

His heart rate seems normal through all of this and it isn't a fit. It only happens when digging at these grass roots, but not every time. Also doesn't seem to make a difference it the ground is dry or wet.

 

It is a woodland trust area and apart form the areas of young tree plantations it is pretty much all open meadow, it has been seeded with wild flowers 5 years ago, but the ground isn't farmed or actively managed so no pesticides are sprayed, no livestock use the area apart from an ample supply of roe deer, fox and pheasants. (no shooting allowed sadly :unhappy:)

 

I do try to stop him doing this, but when he starts this he just becomes obsessed ignoring verbal commands and if off the lead at at distance it might take me a good few seconds to get to him and move him away. It only needs a few seconds to have an effect, but always after the walk.

 

Can anybody shed any light on what is going on?

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Hot feet our lurchers get it after been out for a walk but it only bothered the cockers for a little while.some people say it's there pads been to soft but you never no.its funny when you watch them as if they are doing the river dance but must be aggravating until they cool down.its nothing to worry about mate hope this helps

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My terrier does this now and then too. I initially thought it was nettles, which she will avoid if possible, but seems to occur any time of year and not just in spring and summer, and then sometimes it doesn't seem to effect her at all.

It's got to the stage that I give her a couple of antihistamine tablets before we go out on syndicate days as it can drive her crackers around an hour after we return otherwise.

We have a very rough front door mat which she makes a b-line for when it starts to effect her and she scratches away for ages.

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Lurchers, I could go along with that if it was just the feet scraping and if he did it after most walks of similar length, but it is only ever after he has been into the grass roots.

 

He is well walked and has never done it at any other time. The behaviour is similar though :)

 

He is always fine after so not overly concerned, but would like to find out what is causing it.

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Coukd you go somewhere where they may not dig? Then you could rule out roots given a high?

We walk all over and this is the only place where this has happened.

 

There is about 700 acres of woodland trust ground right at the back of my house so that is where we do the bulk of walks, but we are well travelled.

 

We have walked in plenty areas where there is similar meadow grass that he digs at and he hasn't shown any signs of similar behaviour. There are places where the ground is quite wet and the grass grows in thick tufts and it is that sort of grass that seems to cause this bother, he digs at the ground furiously and really seems to sniff hard at the roots, you can hear him snuffling hard at it.

 

It isn't just the same patch of grass either, it could be anywhere around where we walk. I wonder if maybe the conditions are just right there for the rhizomes to develop in a particular way to have some sort of dog mind altering properties. It really is weird.

 

It makes no difference if we are out for a quick 20-30 min relatively sedate walk or 90 mins of full on running wild with the gordon as was the case this morning.

 

Maybe I should get on my hands and knees and have a right good snuffle too, if it works on humans as well I could make a fortune, although i don't much fancy doing a frenzied moonwalk :whistling:

Edited by grrclark
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Maybe I should get on my hands and knees and have a right good snuffle too, if it works on humans as well I could make a fortune, although i don't much fancy doing a frenzied moonwalk :whistling:

Well if you do, then please film the outcome, for research and data gathering purposes ofcourse, not comedy value...

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The only thing i know about ergot is they think that the residents of Salem may have ingested it and hence gone a bit ott on the bonfires.

I was just reading that very same thing. Now I have another piece of random trivia to add to the brain box and no doubt displacing something much more useful in the process, but such is the way of things.

 

Some of the symptoms of ergotism sound remarkably similar to the symptoms exhibited by my dog, but it is all too easy to transpose scary things from the internet with much more innocent things in real life, so I shall have a chat with my vet and see if there are any case notes on this sort of thing.

 

It may be that ergot is ruled out, but for now it sounds fairly plausible and a little bit scary.

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It's only scary if you're a witch.

 

Good luck and hope you find out what it is, fingers crossed its something trivial too.

My gordon setter can be a wee witch at times, but that is a setter thing and needs no additional stimulation :)

 

It is the golden who has the odd episodes after snorting at the roots, I shall walk him elsewhere for a bit until I do a bit more research.

 

There is around 150 acres of clear cut Norwegian fir plantation that has been re-planted with various native Scottish broad leaf trees and he has never had any ill effect after digging and rooting in the grass tufts in that area so will stick to there for now.

 

Today was the first time this year he showed those symptoms after the walk, I was hoping that we might have escaped it, but sadly not

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It might be worth taking a sample of the roots that "get to him" to the vet for tests. I know this will cost you BUT at least you will know then....

I would happily go down that route if there is sufficient concern that it is a possibility. I am in a fortunate enough position to be able to say that a bit of cash is much less important to me than the well being of my dog.

 

I shall have a blether with the vet in the next few days and see what they think.

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I would happily go down that route if there is sufficient concern that it is a possibility. I am in a fortunate enough position to be able to say that a bit of cash is much less important to me than the well being of my dog.

 

I shall have a blether with the vet in the next few days and see what they think.

having looked in a text book Bently and Drivers "A textbook of pharmaceutical chemistry", it would seem the test is quite a simple one, sadly not one you could DIY due to the reagents needed....

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having looked in a text book Bently and Drivers "A textbook of pharmaceutical chemistry", it would seem the test is quite a simple one, sadly not one you could DIY due to the reagents needed....

What a fantastic textbook to have to hand. Such little time in life and so much I would like to learn.

 

Just out of curiosity what reagents are required?

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ergot in grasses uk

 

Did a search for ergot images on Google. The fungus forms as black bits on the seed head, not the roots.

This could still be the cause as a dog could have been digging among ergot infected grasses and got high from inhaling the spores. They would then associate the digging with the effect and so repeat the behavior.

 

The link doesn't seem to work, but if you type the above words in google and go to images there are some good photos.

 

If you decide to take some samples to the vet wear rubber gloves while handling the plant and seal the plant in a clean ziplock type bag.

Edited by loriusgarrulus
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What a fantastic textbook to have to hand. Such little time in life and so much I would like to learn.

 

Just out of curiosity what reagents are required?

4-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde ( aka paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde) in sulphuric acid with ferric chloride, which gives a violet blue colour in the presence of ergotamine...

 

5g of PDBA in 50 ml of ethanol and CONCENTRATED sulphuric acid in the ratio of 60:40 with 0.1 ml of 5% ferric chloride....

Edited by victorismyhero
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4-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde ( aka paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde) in sulphuric acid with ferric chloride, which gives a violet blue colour in the presence of ergotamine...

 

5g of PDBA in 50 ml of ethanol and CONCENTRATED sulphuric acid in the ratio of 60:40 with 0.1 ml of 5% ferric chloride....

Are you a witch too?

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4-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde ( aka paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde) in sulphuric acid with ferric chloride, which gives a violet blue colour in the presence of ergotamine...

 

5g of PDBA in 50 ml of ethanol and CONCENTRATED sulphuric acid in the ratio of 60:40 with 0.1 ml of 5% ferric chloride....

Thanks for that. In the dim history of my past I could have done most of that myself having access to the necessary chemicals, but not any more. Probably for the best too that these days are behind me :)

 

 

Are you a witch too?

 

:D

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