oldypigeonpopper Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 hello, just though to ask forum members what your thoughts on the above with the farms you shoot on be it a small family farm/ large estate etc, i have known the family who let me shoot for 30 years and 6 years for the small farm and have seen many changes in those years, the large farm packed up milking 10 years ago the smaller now has a caravan park to make some money. i often hear comments like rich farmers well in land prices yes and a lot is being sold for house building/ and those dreaded solar panels but for those who are farmers and not interested in selling here is a thought, at the farm i go shooting they lost 40% of the rape crop and that gave no profit so what is going on with your perms? thanks for looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 How did they lose 40% of their rape crop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 How did they lose 40% of their rape crop? it did not germinate in time and was to costly to re drill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) It's bloody hard work,certainly a job I wouldn't like to do,my farmer has been out all week muck spreading to the early hours.He was still at it at 3am when I drive off after a Fox session.He still made the time to phone me during my session to tell me when he saw a Fox while spreading. Edited August 14, 2015 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 the small farm is hard work long hours and as much stress as you want.as for wages well they can be good depends on what the large supermarkets decide you need to earn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Why don't you let us know where you live oldypigeonpopper? This might put a bit on context around your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Puzzles me why two farms next to each other can have totally different outcomes ? One can make a living and the other goes bust ? Having said that, I do know some lazy farmers, could that be the reason ? Anyone else know a farmer who likes to take it easy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Anyone else know a farmer who likes to take it easy ? Yes, I'd love to take it easy. Not going to happen though. Without a doubt land and property prices have filled the pockets of many farmers, but that is only if you sell. Then what? Most farmers don't have a great love of money, it is their job that they love. Seems to be the opposite of most of the rest of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Why don't you let us know where you live oldypigeonpopper? This might put a bit on context around your question. south oxfordshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Puzzles me why two farms next to each other can have totally different outcomes ? One can make a living and the other goes bust ? Having said that, I do know some lazy farmers, could that be the reason ? Anyone else know a farmer who likes to take it easy ? It's like any business - you have a billion and 1 things to take into account, plan for or decide over. Most farming activities have an element of risk attached to the outcome. Some people are good at it and some are bad. It is also a very lonely job with hours on your own to contemplate everything that's stressing you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 I know some very greedy farmers and some very generous farmers. I know some farmers who constantly gripe that there is no money in farming while driving around in their top of the range vehicles, totally unaware of any discrepancy between what they are saying and the image they are creating, and others who drive around in cars over 25 years old held together with baler twine. I know some phenomenally wealthy farmers and some asset rich but otherwise poor incomed farmers. Modern machinery has made the work easier but hasn't affected the hours put in, it simply means the same work is done over two days instead of five, for example, and that comment comes from a farmer. I know a local farmer who sold all his land to property developers for 8 million just a couple of years ago; he is now retired at the age of 57, and another sheep farmer who pays for all the birds released and reared on anothers farm for his wealthy farming friends to shoot each season. He also has horses in Canada ( harness racing ) and told us after one shoot that his winnings for just one season amounted to over £300,000. He has also been barred from local auctions for underhanded dealings and last year bought a Tupp for £48,000. Another one has recently claimed some pedigree sheep have been stolen from one of his fields, but is under investigation as none of the other 'none' pedigree sheep in the same field were stolen, and a suspicious fire in some outbuildings. I know a farmer who claimed against his tax, for the conversion of a barn into a family dwelling for his sons family, and others who 'employ' their sons and pay them a wage, rather than have them as business partners, and one who was very nearly prosecuted when he dramatically understated the number of travellers caravans on his land; he hadn't imagined the inland revenue inspectors would actually walk round and physically count them. I know two whom have gone bust; one for the third (and final) time purely down to is own making, and another whom had a nervous breakdown after his two sisters wanted paying their share of the farm leaving the brother to single handedly try to work his way out of inherited debt. He is still farming, but for someone else. Another wealthy landowner bought his land and buildings, leased out the grass and pulled down the sandstone buildings and sold the stone to property developers. I know another who is one of the most generous people I've met, although he doesn't have a lot of expendable income, and he and his wife are struggling to bring up three children, one of whom is severely handicapped. Mice have, some time ago, nested in and eaten through various bits of the wiring loom in the Landrover. The horn still works, although it sounds like Windy Millers van horn in Trumpton. I could go on with many more examples of the good, the bad and the ugly, but I'm up early in the morning. Farmers are no different than any other sort of people, and you will find characteristics both good and bad relevant to any and all other parts of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic1281 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Well said scully!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 My neighbour is the laziest farmer you will ever find. He went into poultry several years ago. Told me his market stall/vegetable production was too much like hard work. Now he seems to do an hour a day max (we live 60 yes from farm) and his 80yo mother check chucks for dead/dying early every morning (when I'm dog walking) plus a little bit of arable although even there he often uses contractors as he hasn't the proper equipment. And he's nasty too having upset everyone within a couple of miles of his farm with stupid stuff: ripping up road signs, dumping poultry manure next to garden hedges, mud (6" deep) on lanes, driving intentionally over grass neatly cut verges etc etc. not a good advert for farming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue jimny Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Totally agree scully you saved me a lot of typing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Puzzles me why two farms next to each other can have totally different outcomes ? One can make a living and the other goes bust ? Having said that, I do know some lazy farmers, could that be the reason ? Anyone else know a farmer who likes to take it easy ? Chances are one farmer owns the land, the other is a tenant..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 four years ago one of my permissions had THREE barley/wheat harvests, and managed to plant a fourth. The year after they managed TWO harvests, and planted a third, the last two years they have managed ONEbharvest and planted another. But this year they still haven't managed to start on the single harvest, so it's doubtful at the rate things are going that they will manage to plant another before winter sets in (harvests on that permission look to be another 6-8 weeks away) The reasons they aren't making money are many. ONE, the price of milk TWO, the price of BEEF THREE, the rain (never bloody stops) FOUR the lack of sun, no heat in the ground, the crops won't grow and the fields won't dry FIVE the meddling EU. They WERE planting 226 acres of wheat and barley five years ago Four years ago the EU reduced that to 186 acres The next year was reduced to 154 acres The next year was reduced to 137 acres, The next year was reduced 110 acres This year has been reduced to 89 acres Add that to the fact they now have to have at least 3 different crops PLUS silage, and it means they are having to buy in grain for feed, and straw for bedding from the continent :( Basically the EU is all about forcing the UK into reliance on French and German farmers and the EU in general for foodstuffs. Put the squeeze on the UK farmers, and make it so they can't produce, while increasing the quotas for French and German farmers. Same happened with our fishing fleets. We have 70% of the EU's fishing waters, yet are allowed on 14% of the quotas in them, the rest go to Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, and France Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Having been there and although retired I still do a little.No farmer ever really retires I keep a few head of beef and have a stable yard which I do diy livery.From reading some of the posts about farm earnings I have to ask if it's such an easy and lucrative life why when there are farms up for sale are more people not getting into it,after all you only need to go to the bank with your business plan to be a farmer and of course they will also know how easy and rich farming is they will gladly give you a few million to buy a two or three hundred acre farm and a bit extra to buy the equipment and of course get you through the first year until that bumper payday arrives.What could be easier spend a couple of hours riding around your estate in the range rover watching the cash grow before your very eyes.There are bad farmers the same as there are good and bad in all professions a bad farmer will cease to be very quickly as if they do not take care of their livestock and crops correctly they will have no market.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Redditch, Dunno wot ur farmer is planting but he should sell it and make a fortune, never ever heard of a farmer have 3 harvests!! Yes he may get the combine back 3 or 4 times for different crops sowed at different times (winter, spring, possibly arable silage/fodder) but he is only getting 1 crop of per field not 3 or 4. Chances are he's gave up on wheat as hard to rippen up here in ths climate and he's just planted everything as winter crops, more chance to harvest it, possibly also to wet to get spring crops in, althou with modern machinery doesnae take long to plough and 1 pass a large acreage Farmers are like everyone else good and bad but the majority do work vey hard for there money. Yes some drive about in fancy 4x4's but most are a tax dodge (i see more 4x4's in shoot/game fair car parks to get muddy a few times a year if ur lucky) atleastfarmer can justify it. How many factory owners/building companies or any other boss that's business will probably be worth millions drive about in a scrap heap? Most farming businesses would cost millions to buy even some tennant farms by time u have stock and machinery yet the turnover/profit from that u'd be better off with money in the bank/invested and sitting with ur feet up. A lot of farmers or big landonwers esp tend to be land/asset rich but very cash poor althou some of this green enrgysubsidies has really helped a few local estate owners Not many people would work all year producing a product that they can only sell once at certain times of year and have no idea if they're will be a market for it or wot price it will be worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 four years ago one of my permissions had THREE barley/wheat harvests, and managed to plant a fourth. The year after they managed TWO harvests, and planted a third, the last two years they have managed ONEbharvest and planted another. But this year they still haven't managed to start on the single harvest, so it's doubtful at the rate things are going that they will manage to plant another before winter sets in (harvests on that permission look to be another 6-8 weeks away) What are you on about?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) four years ago one of my permissions had THREE barley/wheat harvests, and managed to plant a fourth. The year after they managed TWO harvests, and planted a third, the last two years they have managed ONEbharvest and planted another. But this year they still haven't managed to start on the single harvest, so it's doubtful at the rate things are going that they will manage to plant another before winter sets in (harvests on that permission look to be another 6-8 weeks away) The reasons they aren't making money are many. ONE, the price of milk TWO, the price of BEEF THREE, the rain (never bloody stops) FOUR the lack of sun, no heat in the ground, the crops won't grow and the fields won't dry FIVE the meddling EU. They WERE planting 226 acres of wheat and barley five years ago Four years ago the EU reduced that to 186 acres The next year was reduced to 154 acres The next year was reduced to 137 acres, The next year was reduced 110 acres This year has been reduced to 89 acres Add that to the fact they now have to have at least 3 different crops PLUS silage, and it means they are having to buy in grain for feed, and straw for bedding from the continent :( Basically the EU is all about forcing the UK into reliance on French and German farmers and the EU in general for foodstuffs. Put the squeeze on the UK farmers, and make it so they can't produce, while increasing the quotas for French and German farmers. Same happened with our fishing fleets. We have 70% of the EU's fishing waters, yet are allowed on 14% of the quotas in them, the rest go to Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, and France Excellent post. Sets out quite precisely how well the general public understand farming. Edited August 15, 2015 by 39TDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 four years ago one of my permissions had THREE barley/wheat harvests, and managed to plant a fourth. The year after they managed TWO harvests, and planted a third, the last two years they have managed ONEbharvest and planted another. But this year they still haven't managed to start on the single harvest, so it's doubtful at the rate things are going that they will manage to plant another before winter sets in (harvests on that permission look to be another 6-8 weeks away) The reasons they aren't making money are many. ONE, the price of milk TWO, the price of BEEF THREE, the rain (never bloody stops) FOUR the lack of sun, no heat in the ground, the crops won't grow and the fields won't dry FIVE the meddling EU. They WERE planting 226 acres of wheat and barley five years ago Four years ago the EU reduced that to 186 acres The next year was reduced to 154 acres The next year was reduced to 137 acres, The next year was reduced 110 acres This year has been reduced to 89 acres Add that to the fact they now have to have at least 3 different crops PLUS silage, and it means they are having to buy in grain for feed, and straw for bedding from the continent :( Basically the EU is all about forcing the UK into reliance on French and German farmers and the EU in general for foodstuffs. Put the squeeze on the UK farmers, and make it so they can't produce, while increasing the quotas for French and German farmers. Same happened with our fishing fleets. We have 70% of the EU's fishing waters, yet are allowed on 14% of the quotas in them, the rest go to Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, and France You missed one very important country that fishes EU waters. CHINA! I work as a storeman in the catering industry, we have cod fillets delivered, labelled "North East Atlantic Cod. Produce of China. How long before cod stocks are wiped out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Excellent post. Sets out quite precisely how well the general public understand farming. That my dear sir just about sums it up, heaven help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 four years ago one of my permissions had THREE barley/wheat harvests, and managed to plant a fourth. The year after they managed TWO harvests, and planted a third, the last two years they have managed ONEbharvest and planted another. But this year they still haven't managed to start on the single harvest, so it's doubtful at the rate things are going that they will manage to plant another before winter sets in (harvests on that permission look to be another 6-8 weeks away) The reasons they aren't making money are many. ONE, the price of milk TWO, the price of BEEF THREE, the rain (never bloody stops) FOUR the lack of sun, no heat in the ground, the crops won't grow and the fields won't dry FIVE the meddling EU. They WERE planting 226 acres of wheat and barley five years ago Four years ago the EU reduced that to 186 acres The next year was reduced to 154 acres The next year was reduced to 137 acres, The next year was reduced 110 acres This year has been reduced to 89 acres Add that to the fact they now have to have at least 3 different crops PLUS silage, and it means they are having to buy in grain for feed, and straw for bedding from the continent :( Basically the EU is all about forcing the UK into reliance on French and German farmers and the EU in general for foodstuffs. Put the squeeze on the UK farmers, and make it so they can't produce, while increasing the quotas for French and German farmers. Same happened with our fishing fleets. We have 70% of the EU's fishing waters, yet are allowed on 14% of the quotas in them, the rest go to Spain, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, and France Remember this when we get the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Kennett, I couldn't get my head around 3 harvests per season etc. this could revolutionise farming were there a grain of truth in it. Mind you there is an advert about some health food or snack where it starts off "90 days growing (the grain)....." maybe with a little more sun and 365 days you could get a couple of crops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Remember this when we get the referendum. Absolutely. I have just returned from France where it was something of an eye operner to see MIXED farms of no more than 50 acres (I kid you not) supporting one or two families (got talking to some locals about this). There were also a number of even smaller arable farms, perhaps 30 to 40 acres, close to where we stayed. One milking herd of cattle (50 acre farm) would have been no more than 40 head. Those sort of numbers just dont exist in the UK because it would be impossible to make a living. The other difference was that the French (sensibly I have to add) farms invest in local co-operatives for machinery and contracting, and for a one off fee each year (subsidised of course) have all their combining, bailing, drilling etc done for them. Europe has long been protectionist about its farm produce and supporting traditional ways of life, none more so than the French. We, in the UK are paying for that with ever increased imports of milk and dairy produce, ever growing restrictions on arable production and ever decreasing fish stocks in what used to be UK waters. It was Heath who being two faced and with a clear pro-EU agenda, sold us up the swanny when we entered the common market on doing a deal RE fishing, essentially agreeing to opening our waters to the French and Spanish fleets, followed later by Gummer acting in his capacity as Fishng Miister, and the Blair government was all for destroying small farms (Blair famously holding a personal view that we should be reliant on europe as our small farming was inefficient and we shouldn't subsidise it). This has all come home to roost now and I feel sorry for farmers who've farmed for generations on small farms in the UK. They've deliberately been done over by underhand deals made in Brussels with the complete knowledge, and worse, agreement of our own successive governments. I welcome the opportunity that a referendum will bring for once and all to get us out of subsidising other countries at our net expense and of regaining control of our territorial fishing waters; to see a resurgence of UK mixed farming on a smaller level support more in work in the rural economies, to support rural communities and to rebuild our own fishing fleets and regain the significant incomes from fishing that came with it. We now have the benefits of years of conservation management and studies to help restore fisheries and to better manage our landscapes. Whatever you may think of your local farmer and how the land on your permission is managed, it is not an easy job at any level and requires hard graft, often eye watering operating overdrafts to run the farm on (one of my permissions operates on a £300K annual overdraft and that would jkeep me awake at nights) and with one bad crop year, that overdraft cannot be cleared and interest payments wipe out much of the annual profits for the year. There are aspects of land management I dont hold with such as some of the dumping and messing up of the land in certain areas, but it's way too easy to criticise when you're not the one having to work 15 hours a day. At the end iof the day, we all have to work to make ends meet. I work long hours for very modest income, just enough to cover the bills. We live modestly, but with my self employment, I am not at least at the behest of ever more restrictive EU farming policy looking to protect French, German and Spanish interests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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