digger Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 V true drut. If you know the right ( wrong ) people an untraceable hand gun is easily obtained for less than the price of a weekend away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think you're clutching at straws there. Were the guns legally held? I'm guessing so...in which case there's something seriously wrong with the 'vetting' system. It's not like it's a one off incident...it's almost expected to happen nowadays. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Problem isn't the guns but the society! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinach Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Most gun killings in America are people that are killed with their own gun,one way or another!!!Go on officer explain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) its interesting to consider Americas closest neighbours Canada & Mexico i don't know what they have as gun control i would guess Canada has some but probably allows rifles & shotguns for hunting as for Mexico god alone knows, that said they don't get this constant issue of "mass" innocent public shootings to the best of my knowledge, so it feels like a mix in America of open accessibility to guns and a society which is seriously screwed in the head leading to this constant cycle of violence against innocent people. i guess the question is would this have happened in the UK had we had similar open access to firearms, just my opinion but i think it might have, i am glad we have strict gun control i believe we have made the right choices. Edited October 3, 2015 by chrisjh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 I absolutely don't believe that legislation would make any difference to their use in crimes same as I don't believe further legislation around airguns in Scotland will make any difference to their use in crimes, but there does need to be a cultural shift in respect to gun ownership, use and justification for ownership in the US The 'justification' part is quite simple : the Second amendment. Changing it ... well, that's a brave move for a US government. Some states do also have mandatory training, storage, carrying , delays in buying, selling requirements, state registration of firearms. Interestingly, 19 of the mass shootings so far this year happened in California. Which has the really tight gun controls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 its interesting to consider Americas closest neighbors Canada & Mexico i don't know what they have as gun control i would guess Canada has some but probably allows rifles & shotguns for hunting as for Mexico god alone knows, Surprisingly Mexico actually has stricter laws regarding the possesion of firearms than Canada. Unsurprisingly American states that have stricter levels of gun control, particularly regarding possesion of assault type weapons, licensing and storage, also have lower incidents of homicides by firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) There is a subtle but significant psychological difference between a hunting rifle or shotgun and some of the rambo hardware that is freely available in the US even to nerdy kids with personality issues. They sell "Zombie" killer ammo and that sort of thing just blurrs the difference between violent video games and reality. A lot of European countries have much more liberal gun laws than we have in the UK, I am thinking about Belgium and Holland which I have personal experience of shooting in but Germany as well. They don't seem to have problems but they don't have the the hysterical anti gun attitude you get here. Everybody is relaxed about shooting and regard it as a normal everyday pastime. Edited October 3, 2015 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Close to home for us too when we saw 'Oregon shootings' - daughter lives in Portland and we have 2 grandkids out there. Although this grabs the headlines I understand per head of population USA has lower gun/knife crime than UK. It's just that when it happens is true USA-style it's big. Also given a) number of guns and number of nutters (one of the amendments 5th? deliberately let's in any religious nut who has been persecuted elsewhere) its surprising there isn't more. Gun control always the answer of course for politicians but following our handgun ban gun crime rose by 65% - only the good guys handed in their guns, the bad boys continued as before and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Our gun laws are so strict that it could not possibly happen here !......................................................................Oh, sorry, it already has. and im sure it will happen again.no matter how strict our gun laws are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Something has to be done there.But at the end of the day it is not our business. However I do worry that their behaviour may impact on our gun ownership. As they say America coughs we catch the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 This worries me too Mossie835. The recent report by Inspectors of Constabulary suggests process is flawed and when one bad boy slips through we all suffer. The major shootings in UK (Bird, Ryan, Hamilton etc) were all cases police should have denied licences to. I recall in a couple of them FEO/plod on beat recommended declinature but Chief Constable overruled. The USA killings will no doubt result in a call for us to have tighter laws. We don't need tighter laws - we need better policing. Closer to home I've got a neighbour who shoots and there is something very odd about his behaviour. Reclusive, irrational and several small incidents in our small community which would be difficult to articulate to the authorities but increasingly worry me. I might be, in my mind, exaggerating this but just as an example he cut me off socially when I got early retirement. We had been very good buddies but that stopped. He then got chucked out of a shoot for several things and without me knowing this he completely stopped speaking to me - we walk our dogs at roughly the same time and he started blanking me. Even turning his head away as I passed - school girl behaviour. The mates I have on that shoot commented too that "....he isn't right in the head". What can I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
officerdibble777 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Go on officer explain ? There are about 20,000 suicides in a given year in the US involving guns. There are about 800 accidental deaths. I've never actually heard of a case of a gun owner being murdered by his own gun, outside of family violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/ Of course there are other methods of killing than the use of firearms. There were 10 attackers in the Chinese knife attack in your link. Ten attackers used firearms in Mumbai and shot 459 people, of whom 166 died. It's much easier to kill with a gun than with a knife, which is why soldiers are issued with rifles not swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 the usa is such a very big country, can they have gun control like we have no.some one will all ways slip thought,the sistem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Although this grabs the headlines I understand per head of population USA has lower gun/knife crime than UK. It's just that when it happens is true USA-style it's big. I'd check your statistics. Gun crime onnt in the same league as America. In America they often say that three is more violent crime in the UK. But violent crime is recorded differently here and in the USA making it hard to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 This worries me too Mossie835. The recent report by Inspectors of Constabulary suggests process is flawed and when one bad boy slips through we all suffer. The major shootings in UK (Bird, Ryan, Hamilton etc) were all cases police should have denied licences to. I recall in a couple of them FEO/plod on beat recommended declinature but Chief Constable overruled. The USA killings will no doubt result in a call for us to have tighter laws. We don't need tighter laws - we need better policing. Closer to home I've got a neighbour who shoots and there is something very odd about his behaviour. Reclusive, irrational and several small incidents in our small community which would be difficult to articulate to the authorities but increasingly worry me. I might be, in my mind, exaggerating this but just as an example he cut me off socially when I got early retirement. We had been very good buddies but that stopped. He then got chucked out of a shoot for several things and without me knowing this he completely stopped speaking to me - we walk our dogs at roughly the same time and he started blanking me. Even turning his head away as I passed - school girl behaviour. The mates I have on that shoot commented too that "....he isn't right in the head". What can I do? You are duty bound to discreetly raise your concerns with your feo. The rest is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Problem isn't the guns but the society! Bingo. If you're taught that brute strength and arms solve problems then expect bad things to happen. The easy availability of guns is a side issue, the mentality that allows their frequent misuse is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Increasingly so, the matter of mental health issues have now been mentioned by commentators following these shootings in America. Mental health screening and funding is a fraction of other health issues in American society, and this was first mooted as a concern which was frequently overlooked following the Sandy Hook shootings, and even as recently as the shooting of the TV reporter and cameraman, where the fiancé of the journalist killed, interviewed along with her father, saw no reason why he should give up his firearms, again mentioned the need for mental health screening prior to issuing firearms permits. Although checks can be made against criminal records, perhaps Americans regard the same concerning their health as an infringement of their rights? But saying all that, in a society where firearms are obtainable, at whatever level of prevalence, even mental health screening can't cater for those people who 'go over the edge', and that applies to all nations, not just the USA. Mass shootings aren't rational acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Close to home for us too when we saw 'Oregon shootings' - daughter lives in Portland and we have 2 grandkids out there. Although this grabs the headlines I understand per head of population USA has lower gun/knife crime than UK. It's just that when it happens is true USA-style it's big. Also given a) number of guns and number of nutters (one of the amendments 5th? deliberately let's in any religious nut who has been persecuted elsewhere) its surprising there isn't more. Gun control always the answer of course for politicians but following our handgun ban gun crime rose by 65% - only the good guys handed in their guns, the bad boys continued as before and more. Surprisingly and against what you would believe, America has an incredibly low crime rate across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Surprisingly and against what you would believe, America has an incredibly low crime rate across the board. Really? And yet iirc they have the largest prison population in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Found some stuff on USA Homeland Security budgets and it appears four times the spend on terrorism even though (including 9/11) the number of deaths from terrorism a fraction of other gun-related deaths - like less than 1%. Also whilst I mentioned earlier gun/knife deaths lower in the States is is the number of incidents lower not the number of deaths - I suppose this is typical of USA ie when they do it they do it big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Bingo. If you're taught that brute strength and arms solve problems then expect bad things to happen. The easy availability of guns is a side issue, the mentality that allows their frequent misuse is the problem. Yep, it is a cultural change that is needed and that isn't achieved through legislation alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Really? And yet iirc they have the largest prison population in the world. I think they have a less tolerant attitude to criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Really? And yet iirc they have the largest prison population in the world. Oh yes, they are very intollerent to crime, a first offence burglary charge is liable to get you seven years in jail. Over here you would get a police caution. Their equivent to TDA is grand theft auto and nets about 3-4 years for a first offence. And by jail I mean the full sentence will be served with maybe six months off for good behaviour if you are lucky. Thats why so many of them become born again Christians in prision, to try and influence the Parole Board. Orange jump suits and leg irons etc in states like Arizona. It wasn't that long ago they had them out mending the roads. Do it again when you get out and the second time the sentence is double. Some States pride themselves on the severity of their legal system Edited October 3, 2015 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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