True cylinder choke question

[FalconFN]

thanks.

[rjimmer]

Fenboy and Motty, I respect your knowledge and input, but I'm not a 'serious' pigeon shooter, I'm not looking for big bags or long range 'sporting' shots, I just like a morning/afternoon our with the dog and a bagful for the freezer.

And that is what will go down well with the person whose crop you are protecting.

[GingerCat]

It will be fine. I use as open a choke as possible and with no 7 shot or even 6; it's mustard out to 35 maybe 40 yards on pigeons and similar. It's not great for edge on clays but not many make it through the pattern for me to worry about it.

Occasional I change up to see if they come out and remind myself why I leave them in.

[HuskyRich]

I'm not an especially great shooter Read as: terrible

 

 

But I've found messing about with chokes to be largely a waste of time. I spent ages getting frustrated swapping out chokes in hopes of suddenly mowing down hundreds of birds or miraculously boosting my scores on clays in a sudden display of sheer awesomeness but it's just false hope and a waste of time.

I since went and patterned my gun and have settle with imp.mod and solely shoot clear pigeon 32g no6 and since giving myself a stable platform to shoot with and focus on my shooting ability has tripled.... (to being merely average )

Being serious, but although the imp.mod choke is fairly open I've still managed to cleanly take down birds at reasonable distances and I know that from having tested the pattern that it's good out to ranges that I am comfortable and willing to shoot at.

Only time I will use a tighter (in this case a full) choke is if I'm out foxing with 3" magnum loads where due to lack of shot I want as tight a pattern as I can get.

[Underdog]

I'm not an especially great shooter Read as: terrible

 

 

But I've found messing about with chokes to be largely a waste of time. I spent ages getting frustrated swapping out chokes in hopes of suddenly mowing down hundreds of birds or miraculously boosting my scores on clays in a sudden display of sheer awesomeness but it's just false hope and a waste of time.

I since went and patterned my gun and have settle with imp.mod and solely shoot clear pigeon 32g no6 and since giving myself a stable platform to shoot with and focus on my shooting ability has tripled.... (to being merely average )

Being serious, but although the imp.mod choke is fairly open I've still managed to cleanly take down birds at reasonable distances and I know that from having tested the pattern that it's good out to ranges that I am comfortable and willing to shoot at.

 

Only time I will use a tighter (in this case a full) choke is if I'm out foxing with 3" magnum loads where due to lack of shot I want as tight a pattern as I can get.

Spot on :-)

I'm not an especially great shooter Read as: terrible

 

 

But I've found messing about with chokes to be largely a waste of time. I spent ages getting frustrated swapping out chokes in hopes of suddenly mowing down hundreds of birds or miraculously boosting my scores on clays in a sudden display of sheer awesomeness but it's just false hope and a waste of time.

I since went and patterned my gun and have settle with imp.mod and solely shoot clear pigeon 32g no6 and since giving myself a stable platform to shoot with and focus on my shooting ability has tripled.... (to being merely average )

Being serious, but although the imp.mod choke is fairly open I've still managed to cleanly take down birds at reasonable distances and I know that from having tested the pattern that it's good out to ranges that I am comfortable and willing to shoot at.

 

Only time I will use a tighter (in this case a full) choke is if I'm out foxing with 3" magnum loads where due to lack of shot I want as tight a pattern as I can get.

Spot on :-)

[motty]

IM choke is reasonably tight.

I'm not an especially great shooter Read as: terrible

 

 

But I've found messing about with chokes to be largely a waste of time. I spent ages getting frustrated swapping out chokes in hopes of suddenly mowing down hundreds of birds or miraculously boosting my scores on clays in a sudden display of sheer awesomeness but it's just false hope and a waste of time.

I since went and patterned my gun and have settle with imp.mod and solely shoot clear pigeon 32g no6 and since giving myself a stable platform to shoot with and focus on my shooting ability has tripled.... (to being merely average )

Being serious, but although the imp.mod choke is fairly open I've still managed to cleanly take down birds at reasonable distances and I know that from having tested the pattern that it's good out to ranges that I am comfortable and willing to shoot at.

Only time I will use a tighter (in this case a full) choke is if I'm out foxing with 3" magnum loads where due to lack of shot I want as tight a pattern as I can get.

[wymberley]

Is that somewhere in between 1/2 and 3/4? Shame we British can no longer speak English!

[DanWalker]

Improved / Modified would be 1/4 and 1/2 approximately wouldn't it?

[fenboy]

Improved modified is 3/4 Modified is half.

[DanWalker]

I took it that HuskyRich meant his gun was choke improved AND modified, not improved modified. My mistake.

[fenboy]

I took it that HuskyRich meant his gun was choke improved AND modified, not improved modified. My mistake.

Ahh I see

[wymberley]

Improved modified is 3/4 Modified is half.

Saw this:

 

http://www.rem870.com/2012/05/06/shotgun-chokes-explained-cylinder-improved-cylinder-modified-full/

[widgeon man]

Being a shooting coach, you should also know that chokes work more like funnels, the further the funnel the more it expands.

And imp cyl gives by far the best pattern. While other chokes hold together well and then sort of disintegrate like a trumpet, the imp cyl goes out more like a constant, not having that initial tightness and then spreading like mad, it spreads at a constant, and often almost equals a tighter choke at distance.

Add a plastic wad, and you have an English 1/4 choke at the very least, maybe even a half choke. So it's NOT as daft as it sounds.

Using 36 gram of no4 gives the same pellet count almost as using 32gram of no6, but with far better killing power, so less pellets needed to kill, and at distance a much better striking power too.

Sorry but this is not correct, those loads are not comparable for numbers! Your theory on chokes is massively flawed! I can't believe you are trying to advise people asking for advice on a public forum! Wow.........

 

Also the whole point you seem to be missing is you are talking about shooting pigeons/crows at 70m not yards!!!!!!!....... 36g 4's through cylinder and referring to 'hitting' the bird........... That is in my opinion unsporting, unethical and unfit for posting on a forum.......... Next you might tell me you've been shooting hares at 100 m with 42g BB? ........through modified choke........

 

If you had stated you were shooting at moderate/sensible ranges with that load and choke I wouldn't question your choice, it's a heavy cartridge and a tad too much in my opinion, but if it works fine..... But to recommend that choke and load at that range .....

[fenboy]

Sorry but this is not correct, those loads are not comparable for numbers! Your theory on chokes is massively flawed! I can't believe you are trying to advise people asking for advice on a public forum! Wow.........

 

Also the whole point you seem to be missing is you are talking about shooting pigeons/crows at 70m not yards!!!!!!!....... 36g 4's through cylinder and referring to 'hitting' the bird........... That is in my opinion unsporting, unethical and unfit for posting on a forum.......... Next you might tell me you've been shooting hares at 100 m with 42g BB? ........through modified choke........

 

If you had stated you were shooting at moderate/sensible ranges with that load and choke I wouldn't question your choice, it's a heavy cartridge and a tad too much in my opinion, but if it works fine..... But to recommend that choke and load at that range .....

Yes but he has been shooting for 55 years , so he must be right surely

[Redditch]

Sorry but this is not correct, those loads are not comparable for numbers! Your theory on chokes is massively flawed! I can't believe you are trying to advise people asking for advice on a public forum! Wow.........

Also the whole point you seem to be missing is you are talking about shooting pigeons/crows at 70m not yards!!!!!!!....... 36g 4's through cylinder and referring to 'hitting' the bird........... That is in my opinion unsporting, unethical and unfit for posting on a forum.......... Next you might tell me you've been shooting hares at 100 m with 42g BB? ........through modified choke........

If you had stated you were shooting at moderate/sensible ranges with that load and choke I wouldn't question your choice, it's a heavy cartridge and a tad too much in my opinion, but if it works fine..... But to recommend that choke and load at that range .....

If you had read my post correctly, you would see I stated that the choke I use is a beretta cyl, that's an American choke, and their cylinder is at least our improved cylinder (their IC is our 1/4). Add that to a plastic shot cup, and you looking at probably getting around 3/8 choke.

If he's using fibre wads through a "true cyl" (which I extremely doubt) then I wouldn't advise above 35-40 metres (there isn't a fat lot of difference in yards and meters, a yard is 36" and a metre is 39" (I use metres because I lived abroad for many years)

However, using a plastic shot cup prevents a lot of deformation of the shot, and hence generally gives about one extra rise up in the choke scale compared to fibre wads.

If he has an ACTUAL true CYL, then with plastic wads he should be getting at least IC choking. I personally think he will find he either has IC and IC (American CYL boring) or maybe even IC and 1/4

And the birds I've shot at that range have been large crowd (not small pigeon) and its dropped them dead very time, although I don't make a habit of shooting above 50 metres, it's something that often is the only choice to get birds here, as poachers have made them extremely wary of decoy patterns.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Redditch

[wymberley]

If you had read my post correctly, you would see I stated that the choke I use is a beretta cyl, that's an American choke, and their cylinder is at least our improved cylinder (their IC is our 1/4). Add that to a plastic shot cup, and you looking at probably getting around 3/8 choke.

If he's using fibre wads through a "true cyl" (which I extremely doubt) then I wouldn't advise above 35-40 metres (there isn't a fat lot of difference in yards and meters, a yard is 36" and a metre is 39" (I use metres because I lived abroad for many years)

However, using a plastic shot cup prevents a lot of deformation of the shot, and hence generally gives about one extra rise up in the choke scale compared to fibre wads.

If he has an ACTUAL true CYL, then with plastic wads he should be getting at least IC choking. I personally think he will find he either has IC and IC (American CYL boring) or maybe even IC and 1/4

And the birds I've shot at that range have been large crowd (not small pigeon) and its dropped them dead very time, although I don't make a habit of shooting above 50 metres, it's something that often is the only choice to get birds here, as poachers have made them extremely wary of decoy patterns.

Sometimes it's best to know when to stop digging. We don't know whether or not the gun is new. The OP doesn't have it yet so he can't be certain what choke it is. You could surmise that it's a damned sight easier to sell a gun with some choke as opposed to one without so if it was advertised as TC, then if it was a dealer advert, TC it will probably will (should) be. The bit about the tighter performance of mono wads is similar to the advertising bumpth when they were first introduced and has long since been proven to be a blatant exaggeration. The two main Beretta chokes advertised in the USA market both show that the 'cylinder' dimension is quoted as per 'bore'.

 

Best to see what the OP comes up with when he has his sticky little fingers on the gun.

[neutron619]

I'm not an especially great shooter Read as: terrible

 

 

But I've found messing about with chokes to be largely a waste of time. I spent ages getting frustrated swapping out chokes in hopes of suddenly mowing down hundreds of birds or miraculously boosting my scores on clays in a sudden display of sheer awesomeness but it's just false hope and a waste of time.

I since went and patterned my gun and have settle with imp.mod and solely shoot clear pigeon 32g no6 and since giving myself a stable platform to shoot with and focus on my shooting ability has tripled.... (to being merely average )

Being serious, but although the imp.mod choke is fairly open I've still managed to cleanly take down birds at reasonable distances and I know that from having tested the pattern that it's good out to ranges that I am comfortable and willing to shoot at.

 

Only time I will use a tighter (in this case a full) choke is if I'm out foxing with 3" magnum loads where due to lack of shot I want as tight a pattern as I can get.

 

+1.

 

I'm not a brilliant shot either (read: also terrible) and I love tinkering with chokes, cartridges and things, just to see what happens and improve my understanding. I think it's important to think carefully about what works (for you) and what doesn't. What's right for one may not be right for another.

 

On the other hand though, I recently bought a fixed choke side-by-side and I'm doing so much better with it than I usually do with my multi-choke guns, it's almost ridiculous. Now when I miss or wing a bird, I'm not thinking "would a tighter / looser choke have improved that shot?" or "is this choke too tight for this size of shot?" - I'm just getting on with it, hit or miss. Bloody works too. Couple of 50-yard jackdaws and five woodies in the bag (which is good for me and the land I shoot) last weekend had me smiling all the way home.

 

Oh - my new gun is a tight ¾ and Full - but if two cylinder chokes is what you think might suit you, go for it.

[Underdog]

Cylinder is cylinder not matter which continent your on.

Ic is about .004"/R of construction. About .008"/ d.

 

Maybe half them values sorry.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Underdog

[Redditch]

Cylinder is cylinder not matter which continent your on.

Ic is about .004"/R of construction. About .008"/ d.

Maybe half them values sorry.

That's WHAT I thought until I was proven wrong. cyl in the USA IS NOT true cyl, and IC isn't IC but 1/4 after which they have modified (our half)

And then they have a skeet choke either side of their cyl too.

So trying to equate anything under modified / 1/2 gets very difficult, especially when different makes start changing the names too.

I ordered a beretta 1/4 choke off GMK and got delivered ICwhich they informed me is 1/4, and when I ordered IC I got told I already had it, called CYL.

All very confusing to someone who was brought up on fixed chokes. Most guns in my youth were sold half full, and then bored to suit, some were sold quarter three quarter, or even three quarter full, but most were board prior to delivery according to customers wishes.

Many were often bored again, when they were sold to someone else

[fenboy]

That's WHAT I thought until I was proven wrong. cyl in the USA IS NOT true cyl, and IC isn't IC but 1/4 after which they have modified (our half)

And then they have a skeet choke either side of their cyl too.

So trying to equate anything under modified / 1/2 gets very difficult, especially when different makes start changing the names too.

I ordered a beretta 1/4 choke off GMK and got delivered ICwhich they informed me is 1/4, and when I ordered IC I got told I already had it, called CYL.

All very confusing to someone who was brought up on fixed chokes. Most guns in my youth were sold half full, and then bored to suit, some were sold quarter three quarter, or even three quarter full, but most were board prior to delivery according to customers wishes.

Many were often bored again, when they were sold to someone else

Have you actually measured your Cylinder - not -Cylinder choke , if so what is the constriction ?

[a303]

I'll admit that in the past I have had some cracking long birds taken with a Teague quarter choke in a old Beretta auto using 32g 6 and 36g 4s.

 

But each one looked be only hit by a single or only a few pellets when recovered.

 

Now if I know I'm going after long birds, it's 3/4 or full choke. It's the only way to ensure your pattern is sufficient for the distance.

 

Can't see how a cyl choke can reliably and humanely bring down 70m birds. Can't see how a 1/4 choke could either.

[JohnfromUK]

70m may be OK for clays. I can't see it being sporting (i.e. humane) for live quarry. I just don't believe you can kill reliably - whereas I suspect that you can wound regularly. I would not shoot at live quarry at 70 yards unless I knew it was a pricked bird.

[Underdog]

That's WHAT I thought until I was proven wrong. cyl in the USA IS NOT true cyl, and IC isn't IC but 1/4 after which they have modified (our half)

And then they have a skeet choke either side of their cyl too.

So trying to equate anything under modified / 1/2 gets very difficult, especially when different makes start changing the names too.

I ordered a beretta 1/4 choke off GMK and got delivered ICwhich they informed me is 1/4, and when I ordered IC I got told I already had it, called CYL.

All very confusing to someone who was brought up on fixed chokes. Most guns in my youth were sold half full, and then bored to suit, some were sold quarter three quarter, or even three quarter full, but most were board prior to delivery according to customers wishes.

Many were often bored again, when they were sold to someone else

Sorry, yes, I am wrong. They do have skeet which I think is what I should have called it.

The American Improved cylinder is roughly our 1/4.

But I do stand by cylinder is cylinder.

[Hamster]

This ought to be earmarked as a front runner for thread of the year 2015 . I am going to have to agree that Cylinder is Cylinder i.e, zilch, none, bereft of ANY constriction. Once you have constriction you have choke, never mind what some countries may want to play at.

[bornfree]

This ought to be earmarked as a front runner for thread of the year 2015 . I am going to have to agree that Cylinder is Cylinder i.e, zilch, none, bereft of ANY constriction. Once you have constriction you have choke, never mind what some countries may want to play at.

 

What about true cyl with a bit of carbon in it?