wymberley Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well put Grandalf, if only I could have put it so well. I particularly liked the bit about bus passes and the ring and drive. For me, it's a 10 mile walk to the nearest, once a day, bus stop and if I phoned the bus company they would think in needed sectioning. But, hey ho, these young bucks will be old one day, I just wish I was going to be around to hear them bleat when the nanny state decrees them too old to drive. +1 One way to enhance the flow of traffic without increasing its speed is for everyone to indicate at roundabouts and particularly those turning left. Which age group is more likely to fail to do this? probably the same one that can't be bothered to turn their headlights off when parking at night and, again particularly, when facing oncoming traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 ferguson_tom - a decent post with plenty of common sense. My main objection to the witch hunt against the elderly is that there seems to be no will to tell others the same things. Younger drivers seem far more confident - even over confident in their own perceived racing driver abilities - sadly misplaced. Whilst there are members who might have had a word with an elderly relative, how many have told a younger person that they should stop driving because they are a danger to others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I saw an old couple at the supermaket a few months ago where the old dear had to lift the old mans legs into the car and out again. I don't think his reactions would have been to swift in the event of a hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Amir Khan seems light enough on his feet. Sadly his reactions are not as swift as he would like to think. It would be nice to get an opinion from the pedestrian that he knocked over in Bolton, but he subsequently died. Prince Naseem Hamed had those same special rapid reactions too - same result as Khan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Amir Khan seems light enough on his feet. Sadly his reactions are not as swift as he would like to think. It would be nice to get an opinion from the pedestrian that he knocked over in Bolton, but he subsequently died. Prince Naseem Hamed had those same special rapid reactions too - same result as Khan. Probably on the phone at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I saw an old couple at the supermaket a few months ago where the old dear had to lift the old mans legs into the car and out again. I don't think his reactions would have been to swift in the event of a hazard. So what point are you making? I know of a 36 year old lad who got in his vehicle and drove 12 miles back home. Well he would have if he hadn't collided with an oncoming vehicle en route, killing himself and putting the female passenger (in her 60's incidentally) in the other vehicle in intensive care for a while. The lad I know, following a full autopsy, was found to be at least three times over the legal drink drive limit and traces of banned substances were also present. He left behind an ex-wife and primary school aged kid. Another local lad in his 20's, for reasons best known to himself, drifted into oncoming traffic and was killed by an artic, the driver of which did his best to avoid the car. There was an infant in the back seat but I can't recall whether it survived or not. There are also countless incidences of teenage lads around here killing their mates as passengers, while either under the influence of drink or sheer lack of maturity, including one of a 'boy racer' running off the road another young female driver, whose car overturned and careered down a banking to wedge in the river. She survived but the other car didn't stop to aid her. All have happened locally to me and are easily verifiable. So what point are you making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Probably on the phone at the time Freakmode - typical "fact" - no hint of supposition. Witch hunting at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) ferguson_tom - a decent post with plenty of common sense. My main objection to the witch hunt against the elderly is that there seems to be no will to tell others the same things. Younger drivers seem far more confident - even over confident in their own perceived racing driver abilities - sadly misplaced. Whilst there are members who might have had a word with an elderly relative, how many have told a younger person that they should stop driving because they are a danger to others? Thankyou, didnt mean it to sound like a witch hunt on older people. My point being with elder people is that its normally a physical or mental affect of old age which is the route of the problem and something that cannot be changed and will probably deteriorate further over time. So if a younger person with over confidence took the same assesment as an elder person who people had concerns about the boy racer could tone his driving down and drive to a acceptable standard...the older person with lack of spatial awareness and early stages of dementia couldn't bring bring themselves up to the standard. The over confidence and lack of experience are both problems that can be resolved through more hours on the road. I remember as a kid being bit of a boy racer and i think looking back I was a ****head some days but I was physically able to drive to a certain level i just chose not to. Also had my parents saying i needed to slow down but just thought they were nagging. Fortunately for me and others on the road I didnt have an accident...however did have a couple of close calls in quick succession and a pull by the old bill which really bought me down a peg or two. Edited October 15, 2015 by ferguson_tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agreed, but who re-assesses the boy racers and just when does this happen? It doesn't. If a relative said to a boy racer "I think you are a danger to others and should stop driving" , do you think any boy racer would stop driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agreed, but who re-assesses the boy racers and just when does this happen? It doesn't. If a relative said to a boy racer "I think you are a danger to others and should stop driving" , do you think any boy racer would stop driving? There is no point re-assesing the boy racers as they will just tone their driving down to past the test but at least the could probably reach the required standard. The only way boy racers stop is by their change in attitude bought about by getting older, being involved in an accident or the old bill catching you and getting a hefty fine and a few points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 A very experienced bus driver once told me that a young driver when faced with a hazard will do the wrong thing quickly whereas an older driver will do the right thing slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think a mandatory eyesight test would solve a lot of problems. This is the answer and factually takes the heat out of the good driver / bad driver arguments. You can either see properly or you can't. If you can't then you shouldn't be driving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 It took around 5 five pages but we're now getting out of the 'ban them' mentality to a bit of common sense, thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Who spoke then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 What an interesting thread and not untypical for PW. Knee jerk reactionary statements and ill considered opinion, i.e. stupidity. I see young folk behind the wheel that make me cringe and I see old folk behind the wheel that make me cringe and I see lots of middle aged folk that make me cringe too. I think what concerns me most is when people, of any age, look at driving to be some sort of inferred right and just a mechanism of getting to where they want to be, instead of being an act in itself that arguably requires a greater level of concentration and responsibility than any other tasks that they may perform. There is no magic formula to establish if someone is going to be good or bad at driving, we have a practical and theoretical test that is supposed to do that, yet obviously fails as we still have bumps and crashes. Ultimately we all have to make a choice of whether we should drive or not, that can be based on whether we had a good enough nights sleep, whether we have had a pint or several or whether we can see or not and everything in between. Thankfully we live in a country that still has some elements of self responsibility and we don't need to have everything legislated on our behalf, although sadly that is shrinking and going by the comments of many on here it should be further shrunk such that we need the state guardian to give us permission every so often to say that we are still good. Straying slightly off topic, the furthering of our nanny state is not caused by politicians it is caused by people who wish to willingly cede their individual responsibilities to the state by whining and crying that anything and everything should be legislated for. Take a good hard think about what you are asking for. A driving test every 5 years, good grief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The voice of sanity. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The voice of sanity. Thanks. Thanks. Your comments about legislation and shooting should have resonated with many, sadly I think it didn't. How we rush to give away our freedoms and desperately try to curb the freedoms of others and all in a fog of utter ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think a mandatory eyesight test would solve a lot of problems. Spot on observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 grrclark - I think the irony would be lost on a number of posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think a mandatory eyesight test would solve a lot of problems. Spot on observation. Better still if you could substitute hindsight for foresight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 So what point are you making? I know of a 36 year old lad who got in his vehicle and drove 12 miles back home. Well he would have if he hadn't collided with an oncoming vehicle en route, killing himself and putting the female passenger (in her 60's incidentally) in the other vehicle in intensive care for a while. The lad I know, following a full autopsy, was found to be at least three times over the legal drink drive limit and traces of banned substances were also present. He left behind an ex-wife and primary school aged kid. Another local lad in his 20's, for reasons best known to himself, drifted into oncoming traffic and was killed by an artic, the driver of which did his best to avoid the car. There was an infant in the back seat but I can't recall whether it survived or not. There are also countless incidences of teenage lads around here killing their mates as passengers, while either under the influence of drink or sheer lack of maturity, including one of a 'boy racer' running off the road another young female driver, whose car overturned and careered down a banking to wedge in the river. She survived but the other car didn't stop to aid her. All have happened locally to me and are easily verifiable. So what point are you making? The point I am making is that if you take drink, drugs, texting, concentration out of the equation the average reaction times of someone to move his feet to the brake pedal must be faster than a guy who's wife has to put his feet on the pedals in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Before considering even starting to drive one must be physically able to. Young people are tested at the begining but some of these skills perish with time but its never really tested. Perhaps everyone should have some sort of MOT every few years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Freakmode - perhaps the car had hand controls. You jump to conclusions at an Olympic level - seldom reaching a correct one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The worst time of the day to be on the roads is during the school run period . The worst drivers on the road at this time are the young mums who all seem to be on a mission to get the kids to school . They drive like possessed demons and park all over the road close to the school gates blocking the road and causing general mayhem . Then they want to get out and talk to all the other mums and are oblivious to the problems they cause stopping the flow of traffic . On foggy days or days of poor visibility just look and see who drive with out head lamps . I will bet you that the majority of drivers are the young mums taking the kids to school . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The point I am making is that if you take drink, drugs, texting, concentration out of the equation the average reaction times of someone to move his feet to the brake pedal must be faster than a guy who's wife has to put his feet on the pedals in the first place. Probably very true, but you can't take drink, drugs, texting, concentration, speeding or anything else out of the equation; they all add to the statistics on which insurance companies base their insurance premiums, and insurance companies will tell you which age group and gender of drivers are the greater risk. Some old boy drives the wrong way down a dual carriageway and kills someone. It is without doubt incredibly tragic for all involved, but compared to the numbers of people killed by young male drivers it is a drop in the ocean. What do we base legislation on, the rare occurrence of the former or the common occurrence of the latter? You also advocate stopping people from driving at over 70 years old and taking 'ring and ride'. Sounds very metropolitan and very totalitarian, but whatever it is, in rural communities such a thing doesn't exist. My Dad was still driving at 75 and perfectly capable of doing so, but wouldn't have been able to get about if his driving license had been taken away due to his age. What about all those just like him? I'm not sure where you get your information about elderly drivers having lost count of the number of accidents they've caused so can only assume it's your opinion and not based in fact. We live in an imperfect world; you can't legislate your way to perfection despite what some may try to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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