sp1richy Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Cheers lads, was just abit pee'd as the reason was someone was getting distracted, not its the rule, not safety or any other slightly reasonable example. Oh well live and learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) After 40 years shooting I am just starting with a semi. Now, I only go to a practice ground (Spitfire) where much of the time I am the only shooter within 30/40 metres and even though I can/could put 3 in I DON'T. Yes, I too am meticulously safe...but one never knows. There are very few accidents in shooting compared to other things we do in life. For instance, we let someone with sight in one eye drive a car. Yes, that was what the guy said to me after he had run his car down the side of mine in a car park....'sorry, I have difficulty because I only have one eye'. When I had a good rant he then said 'come on, it's not the end of the world, smile'. I took his number and contacted the police to express my concerns. Edited December 20, 2015 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njb73 Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I really cant believe this same old conversation is still going on....lol I have been through the 301/303, B80 back in the 90's, along with the silver,escort and benelli these days and nothing has changed... When will people realise it is not the firearm that is dangerous... These things are useless without a person in control of them... A semi-auto / Over/Under / side x side are only as safe as the persons wielding them EMPTY OR NOT Everybody knows now that a semi is empty when locked open, and even has safety plugs/flags to put into the breach to highlight the fact.... Go into the majority of club houses, or onto stands with gun racks, where any number of guns are placed waiting to shoot... O/U guns closed and pointed upward on the rack...Are they empty? Semi auto on the same rack... straight away you can tell ... open = empty.... closed could mean its loaded or owner has closed it... but easily identifiable as being a potential danger... Has anybody gone and checked every o/u or s/s on a rack when entering a clubhouse or at a stand to make sure its empty whilst you or others are in the vicinity....?.....We rely on the owner and their diligence that it is..... These things are all mechanical, with components that wear down, so any potential drop could release the mechanism....... Nobody ever complains about o/u or s/s being closed in racks. How do you know any gun is safe in a gun slip...... I have witnessed someone close an o/u and about to put it in his slip at a ground, where he had hit the last pair with one shot, broke the gun...ejected one shell but whilst talking about how good or lucky the shot was , forgot he still had another in it..... Luckily it was pointed out to him to much embarrassment.....Which spoilt the good feeling he had just experienced on the stand... Spitting out empty shells I can see a point in DTL as its set up with no cages and persons already on pre fixed points close to each other. Nobody wants empties being dispersed in their direction when they are preparing for there turn, so i would say common sense and understanding would need to be applied here if this is your chosen discipline... Most other disciplines should have no concerns, all shooters should be in a cage, and all other persons should be behind the person or at least out of the arc of movement.... and if you see someone with an auto....well.... move to the other side....over a bit or out of the way.... As long as they pick them up...if it is safe to do so.... If a stand is set up so a trap is so close to the shooter that he cant retrieve them, thats too bad.... Ejectors in o/u are there for a reason... ok...we manage to catch most of them... but guaranteed a few pesky devils escape and end up in locations its not worth holding the stand up for to retrieve..... Loading 3 shells This is a bit of a grey area.... People have mentioned about distraction and forgetting.... The same can said about any firearm that holds more than one shell... In skeet... you have a single high..one shot allowed...single low...one shot allowed... yet everybody loads 2 shells each time in an o/u... probably to save time and in case that they get that gut wrenching click where they have loaded the wrong barrel... but then... with an auto... you could say loading three means you only need to speed load 1 shell for that stand where an o/u needs to eject and load twice.... The only time in skeet 2 shells are required is on the pairs...... Distraction and forgetfulness can happen to anybody......It is down to the diligence and safety of the individual to keep their firearm under control properly Who here with an o/u has not fired 2 shots at a single bird....and hit it... which has given you an understanding of where you went wrong the first time... When practicing and not in competition, 3 shots is very useful ...especially for crossers... It has helped me in the past and my son when learning about gauging speed and leed a great deal.... Again... whether 1,2 or 3 shots are loaded in a firearm... it is dangerous at all times... Having only 2 shells does not make a firearm any less dangerous than 3..... Personal Opinion I much prefer an o/u now, but in no way would i be negative about a shooter brandishing a semi auto unless given reason to...by that person. If any person is found / seen to be unsafe with any firearm, then they should be spoken to and if necessary banned from the club and reported......Not ban the firearm itself.... Over the years i have witnessed unsafe acts across the board from all firearms...... A new club has opened local to me who do not allow semi autos as they witnessed an unsafe act once..... Would they ban o/u as well under the same circumstances.... Of course not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sian Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 On the point of Skeet and loading 2 shells - in competition now you have to. In the old days you could load 1 at a time for the single shots but not any more. When I started out 1 was sensible I think if you were new at it. Only yesterday in an All Round competition on the skeet range a shooter was loading 1 at a time and was told to load 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I really don`t get the two only rule in a semi as clay shooting is supposed to simulate shooting live quarry and many live quarry shooters use semi autos with three shells loaded. I have been subject to this discrimination myself and the person dishing the discrimination out was doing so with a definite air of hoity toity snobbery, that`s it I get it now snobbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I really don`t get the two only rule in a semi as clay shooting is supposed to simulate shooting live quarry and many live quarry shooters use semi autos with three shells loaded. I have been subject to this discrimination myself and the person dishing the discrimination out was doing so with a definite air of hoity toity snobbery, that`s it I get it now snobbery. I do. The vast majority of Sporting stands have 2 traps with 1 go at each. Loading more than 2 shells just adds another element where an error or oversight can occur when there's no need for it to happen in the first place. Other than that autos are great for clay bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Sporting is a sporting discipline, with a defined and agreed set of rules - the rules say 2 clays, 2 cartridges. Simples! No snobbery involved. The actual people involved - your mileage may vary... Edited December 28, 2015 by CaptainBeaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njb73 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Sporting is a sporting discipline, with a defined and agreed set of rules - the rules say 2 clays, 2 cartridges. Simples! No snobbery involved. The actual people involved - your mileage may vary... Unless its FITASC or Compak sporting... full use of gun at single target..... I do. The vast majority of Sporting stands have 2 traps with 1 go at each. Loading more than 2 shells just adds another element where an error or oversight can occur when there's no need for it to happen in the first place. Other than that autos are great for clay bashing. Unless its FITASC or Compak sporting... full use of gun at single target..... which means loading 2 shots for only one clay ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sian Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Those that would like to use 3 cartridges can enter specific competitions like the Benelli one where you get to load 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris B123 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Its not the fact that people think they are dangerous that annoys me, its the reliability of them. When you have been waiting to shoot a stand for 30 or 40 minutes then someones gun jams or misfires, 9 times out of 10 its an auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Its not the fact that people think they are dangerous that annoys me, its the reliability of them. When you have been waiting to shoot a stand for 30 or 40 minutes then someones gun jams or misfires, 9 times out of 10 its an auto. If you wait that long to shoot a stand you must be proper mental. A few extra seconds unjamming an auto is hardly going to matter unless you really need a wee as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris B123 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 If you wait that long to shoot a stand you must be proper mental. A few extra seconds unjamming an auto is hardly going to matter unless you really need a wee as well I wish it was just a few seconds. but after passing it around three or four of their mates and none finding a fault, they try again and it happens again and the gun gets passed around again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 The reasons given so far seem to be conjecture and based on theoretical situations and nothing more than peoples opinions. I doubt very much there is any data whatsoever regarding safety and accidents regarding two versus three cartridges loaded and if someone has some I would be very interested in reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escortmagnum999 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Just to throw something else into the debate, isn't there a comp for semis and pumps that allow 3 shots? Sure it was benelli or Winchester sponsored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 The reasons given so far seem to be conjecture and based on theoretical situations and nothing more than peoples opinions. I doubt very much there is any data whatsoever regarding safety and accidents regarding two versus three cartridges loaded and if someone has some I would be very interested in reading it. now wait for the silence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 now wait for the silence.... Come on then, show us the data proving your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 almost silent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 One of the survivors of the recent Paris attack survived BECAUSE the gunman's auto jammed. So there are times when it's a godsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Those that would like to use 3 cartridges can enter specific competitions like the Benelli one where you get to load 3. Northampton did a semi auto sporting shoot with three clays to hit on a stand last year. I heard it was very well attended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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