Jump to content

Is Obama right?


Dr D
 Share

Recommended Posts

They democratically voted against it so he's going to use his powers as president to force it on them ?

 

Sounds very good that eh ?!

 

I'm sure all the criminals buying their guns from black markets etc will still be well armed and equipped, and like our own laws mostly just affect us , the law abiding!

 

Should the rights of millions be affected to protect from a small minority is the real question ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right to keep and bear arms was based on the ability to raise a Militia not what is happening now. Just how open ended that interpretation can be pushed to is anybody's guess. You have to wonder bacause a lot of things are changing in American society and not for the better. Chinese imported goods are wiping out one industry after another and they have nothing to replace the lost income.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the point he is making is a valid one. The guns used in the mass school type killings are usually legally owned, nit black market guns habitual criminals use. There is logic in trying to have some checks on who is allowed to own what. The real problem they have however is a medical one. Every person who commits these mass shootings is mentally ill. If their healthcare system was a little more accessible and a little more integrated with the law enforcement community many of these things could be avoided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the point he is making is a valid one. The guns used in the mass school type killings are usually legally owned, nit black market guns habitual criminals use. There is logic in trying to have some checks on who is allowed to own what. The real problem they have however is a medical one. Every person who commits these mass shootings is mentally ill. If their healthcare system was a little more accessible and a little more integrated with the law enforcement community many of these things could be avoided.

 

It goes a bit deeper, all western cultures including the UK and US have massive problems with subscription anti depressents, add to that a big portion of gun related deaths in the US are suicides the right to own a firearm seems to be fuelling a serious mental health problem they have in the USA. As a responsible UK gun owner I think its crazy that there isnt tighter back ground checks in the US given the amount of firearms in the market place. If I was in the US and went hunting and shooting I would hate the bad publisity these mass shootings were bringing to my sport and would be demanding the NRA lobbied congress for tighter control, surely its the responsible thing to do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NRA are a bunch of nuts, there answer in combating school shootings was "eh well arm teachers" Dont know what the answer to the problem in America is but something needs to be done! Would hate to see laws like theirs in the UK, any tightening of laws in the States can only be a good thing regardless of what it will or will not achieve, What we have to remember here in the UK is the anti's and the general public have a vision of mass shootings happening in the UK. However our risks are lower due to the fact we are vetted & not allowed to just walk into a WallMart (ASDA) and buy an assault rifle along with a loaf of bread!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No you can't buy an assault rifle inWalmart - you can buy a 10 round shotgun and ammo. you have to go another 200yds down the road for the assault rifle and a handgun or two. At least inPortland Oregon! Wife staggered we could buy 250 shells with our groceries which we did without anyone raising an eyebrow.

Yes but my friend Jim who lived in the midwest was in my car over her one day about fifteen years back when we stopped to fill up at a petrol station. He was amazed that they sold booze in a "gas station" so much so that he went back to the car, got his camera and took a photo. Different worlds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right to keep and bear arms was based on the ability to raise a Militia not what is happening now. Just how open ended that interpretation can be pushed to is anybody's guess. You have to wonder bacause a lot of things are changing in American society and not for the better. Chinese imported goods are wiping out one industry after another and they have nothing to replace the lost income.

They are using it to raise militias!

 

https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-bundy-militia-oregon-ranchers/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oregon-occupation-armed-militia-occupying-wildlife-reserve-wants-to-overthrow-us-government-says-a6795391.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382511/Militiamen-federal-wildlife-refuge-Oregon-anti-government-rally-support-two-ranchers-heading-jail-arson.html

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/04/oregon-militia-occupying-wildlife-refuge-wants-to-overthrow-government-says-sheriff

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html

 

All nice and constitutional like...

Edited by secretagentmole
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The right to keep and bear arms was based on the ability to raise a Militia not what is happening now. Just how open ended that interpretation can be pushed to is anybody's guess. You have to wonder bacause a lot of things are changing in American society and not for the better. Chinese imported goods are wiping out one industry after another and they have nothing to replace the lost income.

And like us, they complain about Chinese imports but still want cheap goods so it goes on......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It won't make any difference but they must keep chipping away at some kind of action on the spree killings - The mental health angle is definitely a part of it, but also the huge amount of exposure killers get. I forget where I read it over christmas but some boffin had concluded that most spree killings are fueled by feelings of helplessness at a situation and when they are constantly bombarded with blanket coverage of every nutter who destroys some lives and think 'thats how I get my revenge, that's will show them'

 

Personally I don't see it changing any time soon though - sadly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he is right in some ways to take a stand and raise himself beyond the manipulation of hugely powerful political lobby groups. It is probably only an outgoing president of two terms who could take such a step as anyone who is still trying to get to the top of the ladder would be scuppered.

 

Setting aside the practicalities of what he is trying to achieve and how effective that will be I think he has taken a major step in establishing precedent where the Commander in Chief can and does act using their executive authority to move beyond the political mechanisms that render the US government impotent in so many ways.

 

Setting aside the issue at hand, if you consider the 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years when the US was at near economic crisis, when their money ran out, the inability of government to take action was remarkable. Without getting into complex economic argument on the efficacy of the path they chose, had they not done anything that would have been a very real problem for tens of millions Americans in their everyday lives, yet it was being turned into a game of political football and brinksmanship.

 

The unilateral action by Obama in this case maybe takes a step toward rebalancing what government should be about instead of what it has become.

 

The US has an undoubted problem with gun crime, personally I think the answer is much more cultural than a legislative control issue, I don't think that what he is proposing is radical or unreasonable and sadly I don't think it will have a meaningful impact in itself in addressing the problem, but I think it could be the catalyst toward a change.

Edited by grrclark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the Americans can be guaranteed to be up-in-arms about anything, what will most provoke a response is using any excuse for circumventing the constitution no matter how superficially noteworthy, as justification for curtailing their constitutional rights, and therefore turning their valued democracy into a tin pot dictatorship. :/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is well worth a alisten.. i was listening to it on the way home from work yesterday.. it just shows you the mentality of some americans.. they sound like they are in gun fights once a week the way there going on.. fast forward to 11 minutes http://www.todayfm.com/player/listen_back/7/25964/05th_January_2016_-_The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper_Part_1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Obama is absolutely genuine on this issue. The problem is that the culture of gun ownership is so engrained in swathes of the usa that there is no hope of introducing what most other western democracies would consider reasonable restrictions. I fear many of the opinions on this thread are probably on the money. There will be nothing worthwhile achieved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...