using FAC on other permission

[adi786]

hi guys,

Am bit confused as i had a way different thought than what i have been told. I thought if you got fac and a friend of urs invite you to go out pest/stalk with him, all you need to tell police is that this is the land and a friend of urs has invited you to go with him. Now am looking to go with a friend to do rabbits so asked police they saying i need to get the (pest/deer) form filled in by the landowner. Its not possible, as if you getting an invite from someone to accompany them to do pest control i cant go and say to him can you get me this letter signed by your farmer/landowner, which eventually mean i've got full permission rights. Can you guys please suggest on this, what is the best way to take own Firearms on others land if you been invited once a while. The land is already FAC cleared.

Edited February 26, 2016 by adi786

[belly47]

If the land has already been cleared for the calibre you intend to use and you have permission to shoot there, then that is all that is required from my understanding.

 

New land clearance forms only need to be submitted if it's a new piece of land and it's not already on the database.

[adi786]

If the land has already been cleared for the calibre you intend to use and you have permission to shoot there, then that is all that is required from my understanding.

 

New land clearance forms only need to be submitted if it's a new piece of land and it's not already on the database.

 

well they said to me over phone is, i need either a filled form http://www.hampshire.police.uk/internet/asset/a160de1a-30d1-4926-b850-f9240f8c008G/Destruction%20of%20Vermin%20Deer%20Application%20Form.pdf from landowner or a letter from landowner to say i have permission to shoot on their land :S.

[walshie]

You certainly would need the landowner's permission, but verbal is fine. You don't need to send those forms to the police.

 

If you have a closed certificate, you would need to check the land has been cleared for whatever calibre you are using. If it's an open ticket, once you have permission, crack on.

[adi786]

You certainly would need the landowner's permission, but verbal is fine. You don't need to send those forms to the police.

 

If you have a closed certificate, you would need to check the land has been cleared for whatever calibre you are using. If it's an open ticket, once you have permission, crack on.

 

its a closed ticket, yes a land owner would give a yes go on, but he wont write anything down, as my friend has got all permission already. I did told constabulary that friend got all shooting rights and i will only be going with him, and he be happy to send you guys email with land details if required, and i.e. i be accompanying him sometimes, and i wont be going own my own as i haven't got permissions its his perm. The land is already cleared.

[walshie]

 

its a closed ticket, yes a land owner would give a yes go on, but he wont write anything down, as my friend has got all permission already. I did told constabulary that friend got all shooting rights and i will only be going with him, and he be happy to send you guys email with land details if required, and i.e. i be accompanying him sometimes, and i wont be going own my own as i haven't got permissions its his perm. The land is already cleared.

 

Sounds good. As it will say on your FAC, you can shoot over land you have authority to shoot (you do) and that has been cleared by the Chief of police for that area (it is). I bet there's nothing on there about filling in some form and sending it to a penpusher.

 

I don't know why they would want to make more work for themselves, unless he got the wrong end of the stick and thought you needed the land cleared.

[Luckyshot]

If the agreement is as you say, crack on with your shooting and forget what your flo told you. (So long as your fac states land deemed suitable etc and you are certain the land is cleared)

[CharlieT]

If the agreement is as you say, crack on with your shooting and forget what your flo told you. (So long as your fac states land deemed suitable etc and you are certain the land is cleared)

 

This.

 

Just remember though that your friend can not give you permission, only the landowner can do that. You will either need to speak directly with the landowner and get verbal permission or perhaps the easiest way would be for your friend to have written permission stating that he can "bring a friend".

 

As Luckyshot says, there is no requirement to tell your licensing department as your certificate already gives you the authority to shoot on land deemed suitable by the CC.

[robbiep]

This.

 

Just remember though that your friend can not give you permission, only the landowner can do that. You will either need to speak directly with the landowner and get verbal permission or perhaps the easiest way would be for your friend to have written permission stating that he can "bring a friend".

 

As Luckyshot says, there is no requirement to tell your licensing department as your certificate already gives you the authority to shoot on land deemed suitable by the CC.

This is correct. On a permission of mine, the landowner has specifically granted me 'and a guest of my choosing, to be with the permission holder at all times' permission to shoot. I can not grant a person permission to shoot, as I only have permission to shoot. If I held the shooting rights, it would be a different matter.

[kent]

Just phone and check what the land is cleared for. Sometimes you get told one thing by the owner and another is on record

I did this on land I was told up to 308 as I was taking a guest - turns out it was 223. Didn't bother me as I am open and the guest was on 22 rf

Imagine if he had a 308 though

[adi786]

doesn't the land has to be added on to license? i thought to go on anyone's land it needs to be added onto my file. As one of my friend up north has land which is cleared and he got 30-06, he invited me for red stag, i told this to them that i've got invite and like to go on his land, but i was told to fill in that form or a letter from land owner sayihng you have permission, am bloody confused :S, asked same for another land for rabbits same response.

Edited February 26, 2016 by adi786

[walshie]

doesn't the land has to be added on to license? i thought to go on anyone's land it needs to be added onto my file. As one of my friend up north has land which is cleared and he got 30-06, he invited me for red stag, i told this to them that i've got invite and like to go on his land, but i was told to fill in that form or a letter from land owner sayihng you have permission, am bloody confused :S, asked same for another land for rabbits same response.

 

No, You need one bit of land "on your file" to count as good reason for your firearm. Any other bit of land you have permission to shoot and is cleared for your calibre is ok to shoot - as per the conditions on your FAC.

[bighit1985]

From my understanding from my own situation and research. There are 2 types of licenses and 'open' and 'closed' ticket. The main/ only difference is that it comes down to who clears the land for the calibre. An open ticket it's down to the shooter to assess the land and have permission from the land owner verbally or in writing.

Where a closed ticket you have to have written permission by land owner and the police then clear the land for the calibre you wish to use. You can't shoot land the police haven't said you personally can shoot that calibre on even if it's been cleared for someone else before.

If your wanting to go stalking/ pest control on other peoples land then you best to apply for the feo to give you an open ticket. Assuming that you have had some experience then there should be no reason why they wouldn't give it to you.

I believe it's a way the police can limit the inexperienced shooters to go around all over and possibly take unsafe shots on land they shouldn't till they have had the experience needed to make the decisions correctly.

[colin lad]

 

This.

 

Just remember though that your friend can not give you permission, only the landowner can do that. You will either need to speak directly with the landowner and get verbal permission or perhaps the easiest way would be for your friend to have written permission stating that he can "bring a friend".

 

As Luckyshot says, there is no requirement to tell your licensing department as your certificate already gives you the authority to shoot on land deemed suitable by the CC.

+1 Charlie is spot on

 

colin

[CharlieT]

From my understanding from my own situation and research. There are 2 types of licenses and 'open' and 'closed' ticket. The main/ only difference is that it comes down to who clears the land for the calibre. An open ticket it's down to the shooter to assess the land and have permission from the land owner verbally or in writing.

Where a closed ticket you have to have written permission by land owner and the police then clear the land for the calibre you wish to use. You can't shoot land the police haven't said you personally can shoot that calibre on even if it's been cleared for someone else before.

If your wanting to go stalking/ pest control on other peoples land then you best to apply for the feo to give you an open ticket. Assuming that you have had some experience then there should be no reason why they wouldn't give it to you.

I believe it's a way the police can limit the inexperienced shooters to go around all over and possibly take unsafe shots on land they shouldn't till they have had the experience needed to make the decisions correctly.

 

I'm sorry to say your research and assumptions are incorrect.

[walshie]

 

I'm sorry to say your research and assumptions are incorrect.

 

'fraid so.

[Harnser]

This.

 

Just remember though that your friend can not give you permission, only the landowner can do that. You will either need to speak directly with the landowner and get verbal permission or perhaps the easiest way would be for your friend to have written permission stating that he can "bring a friend".

 

As Luckyshot says, there is no requirement to tell your licensing department as your certificate already gives you the authority to shoot on land deemed suitable by the CC.

Not quite true . Permission can be given by the landowners sporting agent . As in my situation I am my farmer friends agent and control all shooting on the farms . I can and have given permission for guns to shoot pests .

 

Harnser

[Dannyboy220]

Kent force definitely have this approach. Ml land is cleared but to take by bro in law, he needs to send a new land form.

[margun]

Yet another clear as mud area of firearms law. I'm actually still a bit baffled about closed tickets but this is my understanding:

 

Had this debate with my FEO when clearing .308 which is closed, i.e. Do I need to write in every time I want to shoot a new piece of ground with owner/leaseholder permission, even when that ground is cleared for that calibre already on someone else's ticket?

 

His interpretation is that if the ground is authorised by the police for anything up to that calibre, then it's okay to go, as long as approval is sought first. So a booked stalk in say, Wiltshire (specific I know) is okay as long as papers are sent in. Assuming that the stalk is in the future and for deer it will be cleared for calibres up to and including mine, then I'm okay. But nothing in return confirmation, which I find strange. As if the offices haven't got enough to do right now with delays etc.

 

If you have the FEOs number, I reckon it's best to phone if it's a real last minute emergency to go. All other circumstances is better to clear your backside by doing a form.

 

But the condition actually states 'for land cleared by the police' or something to that effect. Not 'on land which someone has signed the paperwork and it is sitting in the office'.

[margun]

Not quite true . Permission can be given by the landowners sporting agent . As in my situation I am my farmer friends agent and control all shooting on the farms . I can and have given permission for guns to shoot pests .

 

Harnser

This. The leaseholder can give permission, including gamekeeper etc. Otherwise the 13th Duke of Wimbourne would be forever hounded by police licensing people.

[CharlieT]

Not quite true . Permission can be given by the landowners sporting agent . As in my situation I am my farmer friends agent and control all shooting on the farms . I can and have given permission for guns to shoot pests .

 

Harnser

 

 

Yes, perhaps I should have written "only the landowner, his agent or other authorised person".

 

However in the senario we are discussing the person who has permission to shoot is not the landowners agent as such and I didn't want to open a can of worms where people start arguing that just because they have permission to shoot they are the landowners agent.

 

Somewhat like yourself, in addition to my own personal farming enterprise, I am a land agent for various farming enterprises and as such, omongst other things, am authorised to grant shooting permission and lease shootig rights. However, this authorisation is written into my contract . Which is why I suggested the OP gets his friend to seek permission stating he can bring a friend.

[adi786]

Mm what is the best for me to stay quite.. as that is what i have been asked for even the land is clear to submit a filled form, which was bit strange... not sure what should i do, have an argue with them or stay quite or speak basc

[walshie]

Mm what is the best for me to stay quite.. as that is what i have been asked for even the land is clear to submit a filled form, which was bit strange... not sure what should i do, have an argue with them or stay quite or speak basc

 

Speak to BASC.

[CharlieT]

Mm what is the best for me to stay quite.. as that is what i have been asked for even the land is clear to submit a filled form, which was bit strange... not sure what should i do, have an argue with them or stay quite or speak basc

I apperciate it is difficult for new FAC holders to argue with their firearms Licenseing Departments.

Often, when you phone them for advice, the person with whom you speak is one of the office girls who often get the wrong end of the stick as far as your question is concerned and therefore you end up with an incorrect answer.

 

For this reason I now only speak to the Firearms Licensing Manager having fully researched the query beforehand.

 

In your situation, if you havn't already done so, you should read and fully understand the HO guidance chapter 13.8 onwards.

 

You will see from this that there is no requirement to submit copies of land permissions for additional land that has already been cleared by the CC.

 

However, if it makes you feel more comfortable, read and understand 13.8 onwards then speak to Basc for clarification.