fortune Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 On my ticket I have two allocations for 22 lr rf. one is for expanding ( Rabbit) and the other is for solid for target range use. Son in law in a different county has just been told that they are all the same and it is one allocation. I said yeah you get the gunshop to sell you hp when the ticket only says 22rf. Solid is non expanding and hp is. what say you? talk about make it up as you go along. Dont forget this is 22 rimfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Think mine just says lr but in the conditions I am authorised to buy expanding ammunition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) But in what calibers? on my ticket every caliber has two allocations one for fmj for range use and the other for hp / sp/ >> Expanding missiles for sporting use. This is the same for the 22rf EG solid and expanding HP. Surely to by HP you have to be allocated it on your cert. Edited February 26, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Only have two rimfires now. It does not list solid or HP. Just what the rifles may be used for. Then a separate section states I can acquire and use expanding ammunition. It's all a load of nonsense in the first place but it does sound like someone with no idea what so ever has printed your ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I had an RFD refuse me 17 HMR ammunition because I didn't have the wording "expanding" written on my license! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) The "ammunition to acquire" part of your FAC should say the total number of rounds of a specific calibre and a separate condition should say if you can acquire expanding. Your ticket sounds like nonsense. Edited February 26, 2016 by walshie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 The "ammunition to acquire" part of your FAC should say the total number of rounds of a specific calibre and a separate condition should say if you can acquire expanding. Your ticket sounds like nonsense. Quite sounds like someome trying to be clever and failing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 For example I can hold 600 rounds of 22 lr. Now in the condition I'm authorised to purchase expanding ammunition. Therefore I can buy HP or solid 22lr ammunition as long as I don't exceeded 600 rounds in any combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) This isn't about the wording on my ticket, I'm covered any which way. It is about the way the son in laws feo is contemplating the wording of the 22rf ammo allocation. The feo is saying that it is all the same thing >> eg 22rf ammo. I got son in law to ring round the local dealers and put the scenario to them of him asking for 22rf expanding HP subs with just 22lr on his ticket. Would they sell expanding HP subs to him? Some said NO some said DON'T KNOW. One was going to call the local department to try to get clarification on this. But when they are making it up as they go along any answer might come out. SO how many have got both classes written on their tickets? It is one of the nonsenses that needs to be sorted out but with minimal staff and months of work to be caught up with it isn't going to happen. Soon Kent will be sending renewal forms out 12 weeks in advance. Sussex are going to send the forms out 16 weeks in advance. Booth are wanting to have them back in 8 weeks or more in advance of expiry date or they are saying that we will have to lodge guns with an RFD until whenever at your cost and that the application will be treated as a grant and not a renewal. This need the orgs to be on the case of right now. Edited February 26, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) I don't know if I am speaking out of turn but in Wales for many years nobody seemed to give a fig about .22. C/F may have been a bit different. I can't honestly say it has caused any problems either, has it? be honest, what difference does it REALLY make? Edited February 26, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Well it does if you go a distance to a dealer to get 22rf hp subs and he won't sell them to you because on your ticket it is written as 22lr and not 22 expanding. Years ago When I first got my 223 my ticket said .22 centerfire. When I went into a different dealer he wouldn't sell me 223 ammo because he said that 22 centerfire was hornet. I showed him that I had a 223 rifle and he rang the Kent firearms department up and was told that it did mean hornet even though Kent had put the 223 on system. I went straight down to Maidstone and had it out with them. The person who I dealt with said that 22cf was a whole raft of calibres and that it didn't mean hornet. SO the person who the gunshop spoke to didn't know what they were talking about. They said leave the ticket here and it will be altered. Next morning the new cert arrived in the morning post with the wording changed to 223. It is all down to the individual interpretation of the wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Further to the above. The feo is saying 22 rf lr is all the same. That HP subs and solid target are the same thing. They aren't by definition and the dealer's won't sell you HP subs if you haven't got expanding written on your ticket for that calibre. This is a case of interpretation and department staff making it up as they go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I had an RFD refuse me 17 HMR ammunition because I didn't have the wording "expanding" written on my license! This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) I get where you are coming from and your police clearly are wrong. Due to idiots in charge of law making expanding ammo became instantly banned after the police tried to shoot a bad guy through glass who was holding kids hostage. Then it got ugly, if it wasn't before even. Obviously the gay member of a secret society for a chief constable couldn't have the blame for it all as that would not be cricket old chap so they banned expanding ammo, why? Simple, the trauma from the police ammo on any casualties was no where near as bad as the bad guys! So banning expanding ammo made the idiots in office feel better about it all. Then someone noticed this was actually causing those filthy disgusting types that enjoy shooting furry things to 1, break deer shooting laws and 2, risk causing suffering to wildlife. So now a ludricous situation was needed to grant most rifle users a provision for acquiring a banned ammunition. Welcome to Britain, the land of the free range idiot. So, your police authority need to provide you with a clear set 5 expanding ammo acquirement ability on your licence and tell them I said they are bunch of idiots. Edited February 27, 2016 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) I get where you are coming from and your police clearly are wrong. Due to idiots in charge of law making expanding ammo became instantly banned Then someone noticed this was actually causing those filthy disgusting types That enjoy shooting to break deer shooting laws. So now a ludricous situation was needed to grant most rifle users a provision for acquiring a banned ammunition. Welcome to Britain, the land of the free range idiot. your police authority need to provide you with a clear set 5 expanding ammo acquirement ability on your licence >>>>>> replies. This thread is about the son in laws ticket not mine. I'm in Kent, he is in Sussex. the wording on mine is clear and covers all angles. I've edited your post down to the important stuff. I love the land of the free range idiot bit. And >> those filthy disgusting types that enjoy shooting. >>> I'll have you know that I love shooting and I'm very clean. I have a hose and scrub down with the yard brush at least once every couple of months or so. Edited February 27, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) POSTERS PLEASE NOTE THAT >>>>>> This thread is about the son in laws ticket not mine. I'm in Kent, he is in Sussex. the wording on mine is clear and covers all angles. His feo is saying that 22rf HP subs and 22 solid are the same thing >>> .22 LR. and that son in law doesn't need an expanding word on the cert. It's a case of make it up as you go along again. Edited February 27, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 POSTERS PLEASE NOTE THAT >>>>>> This thread is about the son in laws ticket not mine. I'm in Kent, he is in Sussex. the wording on mine is clear and covers all angles. His feo is saying that 22rf HP subs and 22 solid are the same thing >>> .22 LR. and that son in law doesn't need an expanding word on the cert. It's a case of make it up as you go along again. He would need the condition to buy expanding ammo as a separate condition, like everyone I know has. That along with the slot for however many rounds covers all bases. Listing how many expanding and how many solid is unnecessary micro-managing from some penpusher in the firearms team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Taken from the guidance to police found on pigeon watch. Section 10 of the 1997 Act amended section 5A(4) of the 1968 Act, to exempt from the general prohibition of expanding ammunition people who use it for specific purposes. The exemptions cover those people who use expanding ammunition for the: i. lawful shooting of deer; ii. shooting of vermin or, in the course of estate management, other wildlife (for more information see chapter 13); iii. humane killing of animals; and iv. shooting animals for the protection of other animals or humans. 4.5 Persons who wish to acquire expanding ammunition for any of these purposes must first satisfy the chief officer of police that they have a good reason to possess a firearm for any of the above. Once this good reason requirement has been satisfied, the shooters firearm certificate or visitors permit must be conditioned to include expanding ammunition and, for home loaders, the bullets for such ammunition. The condition should restrict the use of the bullets or ammunition to the precise purpose for which it is intended (see Chapter 3 and 4.7). These exemptions apply only to use in England, Wales and Scotland, as Northern Ireland has their own legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 As long as his condition say use of expanding ammunition I would have no issue selling expanding ammo. As per my earlier post you say it's not about wording on the license I'm say it's all about the wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 they are all solid lead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Fortune, you seem to be assuming that ALL HP ammunition is, by definition, expanding, and would thus require the additional 'permit to acquire'. That is not the case. Whilst you'll find that all (or almost all) expanding 22LR ammo is HP, but not all HP is expanding. Much like my dog has 4 legs, but just because an animal has 4 legs, does not mean it is automatically a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 so where would i stand then as mine just states .22rf and a quantity of 1000 nothing else stated as due to that wording i could buy any .22rf ammo technically all depends how look at wording i only get .22lr hp blazers as cheap and work and i only tgt shoot so all i need You couldn't buy expanding ammo with that. You would need the condition on your licence. When I go to buy expanding ammo, the RFD looks at the ammo allowance, then looks for the condition to acquire expanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 they are all solid lead! what does this mean? target rounds are solid, hunting is hp expanding. Fortune, you seem to be assuming that ALL HP ammunition is, by definition, expanding, and would thus require the additional 'permit to acquire'. That is not the case. Whilst you'll find that all (or almost all) expanding 22LR ammo is HP, but not all HP is expanding. Much like my dog has 4 legs, but just because an animal has 4 legs, does not mean it is automatically a dog. which brands of 22LR hp are not expanding? or do you mean some types of 22 hp copper jacket that you would load into a 22 cf ? so where would i stand then as mine just states .22rf and a quantity of 1000 nothing else stated as due to that wording i could buy any .22rf ammo technically all depends how look at wording i only get .22lr hp blazers as cheap and work and i only tgt shoot so all i need As far as I can make out if your ticket had, X quantity .22 LR expanding written down you would be able to buy 22LR hp expanding AND/OR .22 solid target. BUT if your ticket just said .22LR some shops/dealers MIGHT sell you .22lr hp expanding BUT a LOT wont sell you 22LR hollow point because you haven't got expanding on your ticket. Seeing as son in law is in the process he has rung around about ten shops / dealers to test the scenario out. I think it is 7 wont sell and 3 will. In this case S.I.L. has contacted his issuing department direct and spoken to the firearms manager and he has been told that if he wants hp he has to have expanding on ticket and it will be amended to state this. SO the feo didn't know the score by stating .22LR is all the same, it is just an allowance figure and some shops/dealers don't know. As in a lot of these thing the wording is interpreted differently from place to place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchstone Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Fortune, Reading between the lines, I wouldn't mind betting that you shouldn't be able to purchase expanding ammunition since, after reading your various posts on this thread, I suspect you don't have an express exemption from sec.5 of the Act within the 'Conditions' section of your certificate. Kind regards, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rst1990 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) This is what it states on my ticket (Essex) Shows I can purchase expanding and solid Edited March 7, 2016 by Rst1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.