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Domestic dogs killing small game


Xskppy
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Hi guys I hope this is the right forum for this question.

 

I have been having a debate with a guy I work with , his mother in laws jack Russell has killed a few of his chickens and refuses to admit the dog shouldn't have done it , I was under the impression if a dog has killed another animal he should put down . A neighbours dog broke out and killed a pet goat I had and the neighbour didn't hesitate in putting his dog down .

 

Another guy at work says his jack Russell has killed a few rabbits when he takes it out for walks but is insistent this is normal behaviour for his dog .

 

Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated

 

Shane

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It happens never good and never a stock answer every event is unique and should be treated as such.

What is RIGHT in law OR RIGHT moraly is again very different in some cases.

I had a young springer some years ago he decided he was going to kill three pet ducks in the orchard, i found him but did not catch him inm the act itself, i promptly prepared the still warm ducks and had therm proping a crust up in no time.

Never even raised my voice to the dog at the time, but i made sure i cought him next time he went near them, and i broke him of doing anything like that again.

that dog died 12 years latter and turned into a fine dog.

I was to blame i let him gain acces to the ducks and took it for granted he was steady but something clicked in him and he was off and did the deed.

Never trust ANY DOG around anything living and breathing you care for that cant stand a reasonable chance of controling the dog if human or fending for itself if an animal. .

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Is this a wind up? Would you have a cat put down for killing a rat?

No reason to put down a dog that has killed a rabbit, it's no indicator of general aggression and is something the owner should be managing through training and/or using a lead!

My own teckel came to me because he killed one of his owner's lambs (despite being steady to adult sheep)... I just don't let him off the lead around lambs or anything else small and fun to chase.

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Don't punish the dog for expressing its instinct - instinct which will have been ingrained over many generations of selective breeding. Remember that historically many breeds of working dog were only bred to help humans hunt animals for food or to serve a purpose useful to humans - vermin control in the case of the terrier breeds.

 

Or to put it another way, if we were to follow the OP's thinking to put a dog down for killing another animal, there wouldn't be many (any?) working dog breeds left - crazy talk...

 

IMO the owner(s) should have managed the situation better through training or use of the lead to avoid the dog coming into contact with the chickens/rabbits in the first place.

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No it's not a wind up , where I'm from if a dog broke out and killed a farmers lamb it would be put down . Just different ways of doing things I suppose .

 

I don't think it's in every dogs nature , when my goat was killed the brother of the dog did not take part in the killing . The dog who done the killing stood in my yard ripping the throat out of the goat . You say it shouldn't be punished for such an aggressive act of behaviour your deluded . If any of my nieces or nephews had of been around can you say that dog wouldn't have attracked the when it's blood was up ? It went for my dad and aunt before it was shot .

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My terriers kill the rats that live around our syndicate fishing lakes ,the rats irritate the anglers and eat from the feeders used for the duck shoot so obviously this is welcomed by all.

 

When hunting through the undergrowth they often put up a rabbit and chase them for a while although rarely catch them.

 

Is this sort of behaviour frowned upon ? 'Jack Russell chases rabbit' is hardly a news headline is it.

They have never chased livestock but I always put them on the lead if there are livestock around just in case.

 

I guess if they killed my neighbours chickens I would have to have a long hard think about what to do about it , but hunting vermin in a farmer's field with permission is surely not a problem is it ?

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Fair enough , I get that it's acceptable if it's for pest control . Maybe they are a bit trigger happy in my area of Northern Ireland lol. It was always said that if a dog has tasted warm/live blood it would do it again because of their nature .

 

Just thought I'd ask here to get other people's opinion .

 

Cheers guys

Plus I do be pretty happy with the presents my cat delivers to my porch although the wife isn't to pleased .

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I don't think a dog should be shot for a first offence unless it had to be to stop it. Dogs that have worried or killed can be broken its just harder than to achieve than usual.

In a dog like a terrier it's going to be hard to break it but it shouldn't be so hard to avoid the situation

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No it's not a wind up , where I'm from if a dog broke out and killed a farmers lamb it would be put down . Just different ways of doing things I suppose .

 

I don't think it's in every dogs nature , when my goat was killed the brother of the dog did not take part in the killing . The dog who done the killing stood in my yard ripping the throat out of the goat . You say it shouldn't be punished for such an aggressive act of behaviour your deluded . If any of my nieces or nephews had of been around can you say that dog wouldn't have attracked the when it's blood was up ? It went for my dad and aunt before it was shot .

 

I think the difference here is whether the dog has gone and killed someone else's animals on their land.

 

You mentioned your friends MIL's dog killing some of his chickens. So was that all on his property? i.e she there at his place with her dog and it goes for his chickens? That to me is different to a dog going and attacking a farmers sheep in a field (in legal terms anyway).

 

I'm a big fan of well trained and steady dogs but not all owners are the same and I've seen plenty of `smaller` dogs with a desire to go for just about anything.

 

Each situation is unique so I suppose it depends on the animals future behaviour and whether it is deemed a risk. I think that the owner should also take responsibility for the dogs behaviour.

 

I certainly done think that a dog should be put down for what comes naturally - although each situation would be different.

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My dog is almost Border Collie but has got hound in him and is seriously fast..................at just over a year old he is prone to chasing hares, rabbits, birds and deer............before long he is going to catch a hare and most likely will kill it (or get fleas)........He is good at retrieving but his mouth is too hard IMO, so it is unlikely he will be on the gun, even though he is really good at flushing gamebirds.

 

I wonder if the chasing is classified as 'Hunting with a dog'...........Even though I am just taking him for a walk and letting him off the lead.

post-75271-0-19934900-1457110334_thumb.jpg

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If u can't control ur dog why let it off the lead???

 

U should not allow ur dog to chase any of the things u mentioned, wots to stop it bogging of and geting hit on a road, lost or losing the hare/deer and decided to chase a sheep? It does happen even with dogs u think are steady to sheep when the adrenaline's up and its enjoyed the thrill of a chase.

Don't inagine it would be adverse to chasing pheasants either if it got the chance

 

At a year old the damage may already be deeply ingrained as it sounds like he does it a lot, that dog is going to be a nightmare for the next 10+ years.

Keep it on a lead and work on the recall will make ur life a lot more pleasurable

 

 

Almost anything can be trained or curtailed, just because the dog is a terrier does not mean it has a free right to kill or chase anything it wants as its 'only nature' seen some real hunting/ratting/foxing machines that would walk to heel and recall or be shouted of chasing anything. Have known quite a few borders that would come of a fox on command even when 'on' down a hole, bloody handy if too deep/hard to dig.

 

Its only natural is just a feeble excuse for being a poor trainer/owner. Accidents do happen but u should not be letting dogs run about when u have no control over them

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My dog is almost Border Collie but has got hound in him and is seriously fast..................at just over a year old he is prone to chasing hares, rabbits, birds and deer............before long he is going to catch a hare and most likely will kill it (or get fleas)........He is good at retrieving but his mouth is too hard IMO, so it is unlikely he will be on the gun, even though he is really good at flushing gamebirds.

 

I wonder if the chasing is classified as 'Hunting with a dog'...........Even though I am just taking him for a walk and letting him off the lead.

In a word yes if you are not trying to stop it. If you you were encouraging the dog to find a rabbit you would be breaking the law unless you had permission from the land owner

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If u can't control ur dog why let it off the lead???

 

U should not allow ur dog to chase any of the things u mentioned, wots to stop it bogging of and geting hit on a road, lost or losing the hare/deer and decided to chase a sheep? It does happen even with dogs u think are steady to sheep when the adrenaline's up and its enjoyed the thrill of a chase.

Don't inagine it would be adverse to chasing pheasants either if it got the chance

 

At a year old the damage may already be deeply ingrained as it sounds like he does it a lot, that dog is going to be a nightmare for the next 10+ years.

Keep it on a lead and work on the recall will make ur life a lot more pleasurable

 

 

Almost anything can be trained or curtailed, just because the dog is a terrier does not mean it has a free right to kill or chase anything it wants as its 'only nature' seen some real hunting/ratting/foxing machines that would walk to heel and recall or be shouted of chasing anything. Have known quite a few borders that would come of a fox on command even when 'on' down a hole, bloody handy if too deep/hard to dig.

 

Its only natural is just a feeble excuse for being a poor trainer/owner. Accidents do happen but u should not be letting dogs run about when u have no control over them

Either of you two ever owned an Afghan Hound?.......or three?

 

No I thought not....

 

Try stopping a sight hound from chasing and you will probably get a medal from Crufts.....

 

I have been air rifle shooting for 54 years.......and shotgunning for 39 years.......trained my Gordon Setter as my gundog from 8 months old and two Springers..............Do you think I don't know what I am doing or dealing with?

 

In your eyes, I guess I would be better off shooting the dog., I guess........

 

Seems to me there are too many people on this forum that want to sit back and wait to 'have a go'..................

Edited by OffAim
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In a word yes if you are not trying to stop it. If you you were encouraging the dog to find a rabbit you would be breaking the law unless you had permission from the land owner

I shout 'Come here, you *********** ********** dog!' but it doesn't make any difference..........He knows the commands perfectly.............just closes his ears..............but always comes back.

 

What can you expect from Border Collie x Austrailain Kelpie x Ibizan Hound x Wiemaranar and others.............?

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Off aim ur claimed in ur post ur dog was almost 'border coliie' now ur telling me its a afgan. How the hell i'm i meant to guess that.

 

If ur as experienced as u are why do u allow it??

Granted u will not be able to stop it but anyone sensible would take them to safe areas where no game is present so ur stopping the problem happening.

Or keep them on a lead, how many greyhound trainers do u see allowing their dogs to run willy nilly over the countryside??

I take ur ur dog finds all this game on or near legal footpaths/RoW too?

 

Allowing dogs to chase like that (granted it will happen to most accidentally every now and again) is my pet hate, how much damage are u doing to ground nesting birds? Whole fields/areas will be disturbed by a team of 3 afgans tearing about.

 

In my opinion it shows a complete lack of respect for the countryside and land owners or shooting tennants so to come from an experienced shooting man is mind bogling.

From next month i'm very careful where i train my dogs in cover so to distrub as little as possible, and only use the same area to leave the rest undisturbed for birds nesting, and thats on ground where i run a shoot so have permission to run them anywhere i want

 

If the landowner where u 'exercise' posted a thread about some person/ 'traveller' let his 3 afgans (or lurchers) run wild and chase things everyone would be all for calling the police, but it may be accidental but ur dogs are doing the exact same thing.

Strictly speaking u could be accused of coursing and poaching offences, esp if happening regularly. Wot happens if ur young dogs develops/esculates this further and gets a taste for sheep/stock??? Or is that only natural too (srictly speaking it is) doubt the farmer would see it that way thou

 

 

Never owned lurchers myself but when i first started keepering my head keeper had a few, he could shout them of things would even walk to heel of lead, but he knew his dogs. Like i said seen a few different terriers that would leave a hole on command even with a fox in it, the last time we had to cut our way in with a chainsaw to a shallow hole so shouted dog out while we cut roots away abnd sraight back into the fox

Owning a few dogs over years doesnae on its own actually mean anything, its the stanard that counts more, i know lads that there dogs are still as bad now as they were 35 years ago and just repeat there same mistakes over and over with each new dog

I thought i used to know wot i was doing with gundogs but its only over last 10 or so years throu going to local pro trainers and gundog club i've learned better/easier ways and how little i did know.

Even fox hounds are some of the most stupid dogs u'll get but even they won't chase hares or deer with right conditioning, so yes terriers will kill stuff and sight hounds chase but u should stil have some level of control over them

Edited by scotslad
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Hi guys I hope this is the right forum for this question.

I have been having a debate with a guy I work with , his mother in laws jack Russell has killed a few of his chickens and refuses to admit the dog shouldn't have done it , I was under the impression if a dog has killed another animal he should put down . A neighbours dog broke out and killed a pet goat I had and the neighbour didn't hesitate in putting his dog down .

Another guy at work says his jack Russell has killed a few rabbits when he takes it out for walks but is insistent this is normal behaviour for his dog .

Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated

Shane

I shout 'Come here, you *********** ********** dog!' but it doesn't make any difference..........He knows the commands perfectly.............just closes his ears..............but always comes back.

Do you remember the video of the dog called FENTON on YouTube? If you haven't seen it go and have a look at it. This business about people shooting dogs out of hand is more to do with the person feeling embarrassed by the situation and in some cases it was cheaper to get another dog than to pay out for the damage that it bad done. Also how they are seen to be doing something about it rather than being rational about it. A dog has been developed as a hunter killer for thousands of years from wolf stock every breed from the smallest to the biggest originates from the wolf. There is no way that I would shoot my dog but I try to foresee problems like this and train the dog that I won't be pleased if it comes back with next door's pet rabbit as a gift to me. Just like I've trained it not to run in and flush the pheasants. It want's to get in there and catch and kill them but it knows that it mustn't. I would never ever trust any dog to be left alone with children though.ever. Edited by fortune
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Off aim ur claimed in ur post ur dog was almost 'border coliie' now ur telling me its a afgan. How the hell i'm i meant to guess that.

 

If ur as experienced as u are why do u allow it??

Granted u will not be able to stop it but anyone sensible would take them to safe areas where no game is present so ur stopping the problem happening.

Or keep them on a lead, how many greyhound trainers do u see allowing their dogs to run willy nilly over the countryside??

I take ur ur dog finds all this game on or near legal footpaths/RoW too?

 

Allowing dogs to chase like that (granted it will happen to most accidentally every now and again) is my pet hate, how much damage are u doing to ground nesting birds? Whole fields/areas will be disturbed by a team of 3 afgans tearing about.

 

In my opinion it shows a complete lack of respect for the countryside and land owners or shooting tennants so to come from an experienced shooting man is mind bogling.

From next month i'm very careful where i train my dogs in cover so to distrub as little as possible, and only use the same area to leave the rest undisturbed for birds nesting, and thats on ground where i run a shoot so have permission to run them anywhere i want

 

If the landowner where u 'exercise' posted a thread about some person/ 'traveller' let his 3 afgans (or lurchers) run wild and chase things everyone would be all for calling the police, but it may be accidental but ur dogs are doing the exact same thing.

Strictly speaking u could be accused of coursing and poaching offences, esp if happening regularly. Wot happens if ur young dogs develops/esculates this further and gets a taste for sheep/stock??? Or is that only natural too (srictly speaking it is) doubt the farmer would see it that way thou

 

 

Never owned lurchers myself but when i first started keepering my head keeper had a few, he could shout them of things would even walk to heel of lead, but he knew his dogs. Like i said seen a few different terriers that would leave a hole on command even with a fox in it, the last time we had to cut our way in with a chainsaw to a shallow hole so shouted dog out while we cut roots away abnd sraight back into the fox

Owning a few dogs over years doesnae on its own actually mean anything, its the stanard that counts more, i know lads that there dogs are still as bad now as they were 35 years ago and just repeat there same mistakes over and over with each new dog

I thought i used to know wot i was doing with gundogs but its only over last 10 or so years throu going to local pro trainers and gundog club i've learned better/easier ways and how little i did know.

Even fox hounds are some of the most stupid dogs u'll get but even they won't chase hares or deer with right conditioning, so yes terriers will kill stuff and sight hounds chase but u should stil have some level of control over them

A simple calculation given the number of years I have been shooting will indicate I have outlived all but the current dog........

 

I had the Afghans in the 70s.........they can't really be trained because they think they are cats.

Gordon Setter and Springers in the 80s and onwards were perfectly OK.

Current dog......if you read my posts properly; you will see that he is a mix, but predominantly Border Collie............however, he will chase........(could be because he is still a puppy)..........but not caught or killed anything.

As I mentioned earlier, he unfortunately has the attributes of all the breeds in him.......It will a job to curtail just one.

It was just a thought if a dog chasing was classified as Hunting with Dogs (IIRC according to the legislation, it has to be more than one dog and coursing has to be a 'meet', so you are wrong with that accusation).

Judge for yourself if he is killer.

post-75271-0-84829600-1457176696_thumb.jpg

Edited by OffAim
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My Border Terrier has killed rabbits, rats, chickens, guinea fowl, geese, pigeons, crows, pheasants and ducks. It's a Border Terrier; that's what they do. It has never entered my head to have it destroyed as a result.

What a strange post. :hmm:

+1 that's what happens when people only see things from one side of the fence (only there opinion matters and counts).

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