old'un Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 22,000 names, addresses, telephone number and family contacts feature in a cache of documents, seen by Sky News, described by a M16 former counter terror boss as a "goldmine". http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-documents-leak-british-fighters-among-1700-with-personal-details-revealed-through-terrorist-a6921506.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Excellent BUT why has this piece of information been released? Surely it would be best kept a secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Excellent BUT why has this piece of information been released? Surely it would be best kept a secret? Although it was only released to the media this morning you can bet your life they have had these documents for some time, Sky News said they expect arrests in the coming days/weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Excellent BUT why has this piece of information been released? Surely it would be best kept a secret? Its probably more unsettling for these people to know that the authorities back in Britain have absolutely all their details. It will play on their minds hopefully. By and large they try and conceal their faces, change their names etc. I would imagine a few people in Britain are bricking it this morning after its been made public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Find this to be a bit far fetched really............you dont "drop" onto all that imfo in one go............ this has got to be a see-em trap set by MI.........released to sky................then the "muppet" ISIS cannon fodder get the eebee jeebies and phone their command and control texting or what...and it goes down the line............... meanwhile back at the ranch...Cheltenham have set a programe that rekonises "key words" in communications.......sky news------Ramsey-----documents----etc then after a while a picture is built up of all the connections .....et voila.............Drone fodder ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 ditchman - you are a cynic, but it seems a credible explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 ditchman - you are a cynic, but it seems a credible explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 This seems very irresponsible to me. What happens if some of them panic and martyr themselves, taking innocent people with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 What happens if some of them don't panic, don't martyr themselves, but merely carry on to kill innocent people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 All very odd. Some media outlets are describing the documents as including a series of questions. I suppose there is the ability to fail selection ? "Do you pray first thing in the morning ? " "yes after a bacon sarnie " Sorry but you failed selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I don't believe a word of it but that doesn't mean I think it's wrong in this case because hopefully someone somewhere is clever enough to have done their psychological second guessing homework and released this for a valid reason similar to what some others have already alluded to. Don't forget the Sun headline from yesterday, basically made up things the Queen is supposed to have said I happen to be well placed in spotting certain other deliberate lies on a routine basis. They even physically alter famous peoples photographs to make them look much thinner or fatter. The whole thing is nearasdammit an illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 What happens if some of them don't panic, don't martyr themselves, but merely carry on to kill innocent people? I don't see how publishing or not publishing these details would have an effect on that either way. I do however see how publishing these details could panic one or more these people into action. I reiterate, it seems to me that it is very irresponsible to publish these details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 It is nice to think of them under pressure, waiting for the knock on the door. Then again, we wouldn't want to upset the murderers by publishing names etc., would we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 They won't be published over here, it would be against their human rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) It is nice to think of them under pressure, waiting for the knock on the door. Then again, we wouldn't want to upset the murderers by publishing names etc., would we. I'm not sure if you are deliberately misunderstanding my point, but I will try again. My concern is not that a potential murderer might have his or her feeling hurt, it is that they might be prompted to act before they can be arrested. Surely it makes more sense for the surveillance to be secret, and the arrest to be a surprise. You might enjoy thinking of them sweating, but giving them notice, potentially allows them to frustrate the security services by being more guarded in their communications or even worse bring forward a previously planned atrocity before the police can arrest them. Edited March 11, 2016 by SneakyD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Never underestimate the power of your own insecurity to blow things out of proportion. Many of these heros are really just immature young men trying to look hard. As immature young men have always tried to do throughout history. Undermining them is probably a well thought out strategy. Actually, I can believe that ISIS did have memory sticks with all their 'personnel' records on because they would need access to the records and they couldn't keep it on a central database so how else could they do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Never underestimate the power of your own insecurity to blow things out of proportion. Many of these heros are really just immature young men trying to look hard. As immature young men have always tried to do throughout history. Undermining them is probably a well thought out strategy. Actually, I can believe that ISIS did have memory sticks with all their 'personnel' records on because they would need access to the records and they couldn't keep it on a central database so how else could they do it? Haha, can imagine them phoning a CRM provider such as Salesforce - "Sorry, what organisation are you again?" I wouldn't doubt their digital skill considering they have within their ranks a lot of technical IT people, their video's are filmed and edited and uploaded by professionals, marketing seemingly done by professionals - that's the issue with the influx of jihadi's from differing EU countries where they were well educated first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sneaky D - I think are totally missing the point. You seem to assume - why, Lord only knows - that these applicants are still in their "home" country. A percentage will already be on the frontline - now knowing that they can't just return to their own country when they tire or murdering people or just get scared. They now have a big clue that they are known for the cowardly scum that they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 With any luck it might scare a few of them to scarper so they don't get arrested. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Sneaky D - I think are totally missing the point. You seem to assume - why, Lord only knows - that these applicants are still in their "home" country. A percentage will already be on the frontline - now knowing that they can't just return to their own country when they tire or murdering people or just get scared. They now have a big clue that they are known for the cowardly scum that they are. Exactly! they will be sitting somewhere on a dusty hillside wondering what on earth is going on back home, what emails he left on his computer, which of his former friends are now busily stabbing him in the back in an attempt to save themselves etc. Turn that over in his mind for a few days and paranoia sets in. The more interesting part of what the whistle blower who handed over the stick has to say went virtually unreported. That ISIS had degenerated from "noble" religious fanaticism (even if you don't agree with it) to criminal mercenaries fighting alongside the Syrian army.. Edited March 11, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sneaky D - I think are totally missing the point. You seem to assume - why, Lord only knows - that these applicants are still in their "home" country. A percentage will already be on the frontline - now knowing that they can't just return to their own country when they tire or murdering people or just get scared. They now have a big clue that they are known for the cowardly scum that they are. From the article: "Timothy Holman, who translated part of the cache into English, said the documents were collected at border crossings into Isis territory between November and December 2013" - "At least 700 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist groups in Syria and Iraq, according to police, and about half have since returned." Some may on the frontline, some have already returned to their 'home' countries. In any event they will still have connections and support networks in Britain that may act, now they know they are under suspension. Gordon you wish for terrorists to sweat whilst they are free, I wish for them to sweat in prison. We are, I believe, not so very far apart in our views, but on this point I do not think we will be reconciled. Let us agree to disagree on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 SneakyD - I believe you are correct. We have differing views - neither of us know which is the "correct" one. That's life. I understood that these were not "documents" but a memory stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Excellent BUT why has this piece of information been released? Surely it would be best kept a secret? Just too bright you is! My thought exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Although it was only released to the media this morning you can bet your life they have had these documents for some time, Sky News said they expect arrests in the coming days/weeks. Surely the only point to make them aware is at the point of arrest in the wee hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol p Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) This must be really good news for all the government agencies involved. They can get a head start on preparing shiney new housing and benefits ready for when the filthy savages are shipped back here first class. Edited March 12, 2016 by Pistol p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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