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Beaters wages - has something changed.


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The shoot i beat on sometimes the keeper says to us all its not wages its a tip. Thus no tax

Your right though 20 quid for a days graft barely covers the car cost

 

Tips are still taxable. Doesn't matter what you call it, or what the keeper says, or the fact that its only £20 its all income and taxable

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I haven't been paid for beating for several years, I would rather go for nothing than have HMRC think I have a cash income and start sending out assessments that have to be appealed. The last time I signed for beating payment, we were told that the estate would reimburse us any tax that we might be charged.


 

Tips are still taxable. Doesn't matter what you call it, or what the keeper says, or the fact that its only £20 its all income and taxable

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I think down here in Cornwall we must be about the lowest paid beaters in the country. I do one shoot for nothing my choice. Big shoot I am at two days a week £15 in my hand they pay the tax, a great lunch, could be roast beef with all the trimmings or similar as good as many pub lunches, plus sandwiches and cake when we finish, this is all prepared by the estate and eaten inside with proper heating. After beating here I do not need food once I get home. On my syndicate we don't pay but do feed and water our beaters the same as the guns and we all sit together.

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Have done it for £50 on grouse moors before and agree with other posters it is hard work for the money but I like the exercise :rolleyes: Def would not do that for free though.

 

Also have did some freebies in the past but don't really do that anymore time is too precious. Another shoot I do for £20 but it is quite easy enough going terrian/topology and I shoot there also. Nobody has ever mentioned tax but I have given all personal details etc.

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We stopped paying ours when the tax laws changed.

 

We feed out beaters at lunchtime, there's a tea urn on the go from were everyone arrives as well as a bottle or two on the go. They're welcome to come back to the pub after, we don't eat at the pub but the guns usually have a kitty on the bar that their welcome to have a drink or two from. We always have a beaters shoot on the last day and their invited to the two vermin shoots that we have outside the season. They would be offered some roost shooting but most of the syndicate members take gun and we have a limited number of woods.

 

Three or four have stopped coming since we stopped, it hasn't made any real difference.

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Personally I don't do it for the money and would gladly brush for free with the promise of a good package of perks but it can be very very irritating when the guns turn up in new R/Rovers, your transport is c**p, nowhere to eat lunch except in your car, no beaters day, no pop at pigeons and £25 for 6hrs work. Yes this is still happening in Norfolk. On the other side of the coin I got invited onto a 'titled' estate where having only done 4 out of 10 of their scheduled days I got invited to 3 'cock' days where we shot 299, 298 and 199 head. This was exceptional and was down to a huge number of cock birds that had to be trimmed out. The Lord Giveth..........

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Well done phillip. Beaters should be treated well and paid well. like u say no shoots with out them.

Most of the shoots round our way just pay as normal and no names etc taken or tax paid, as not truely commercai (or not been investigated yet) but as alawys was the case ur still meant to declare it

 

Must admit i declare beating money even when i don't beat, (which to be fair i almost always do a fair bit , but i did have 1 slow season where only done a few days with dogs 10 or so, most years i'm 40+ ) means i can claim all my dog expenses (feed, vets) plus some shooting waterproofs/gear but most of that is in with my work stuff anyway.

But i'm SE, so a i always just put down the same ammount of days

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I get £15 on the shoot i beat on but tea and coffee is provided before the day and also lunch which normally includes soup, rolls and a sellection of cakes, all of this is eaten with the guns so there is no feeling of us and them and we are all in the lambing sheds so very often we see lambs being born. Its not about the money for me, it is about being in the countryside with people who have the same interests as you and seeing dogs working and some fine birds being shot.

Honestly, i would do it for free!

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I get £15 on the shoot i beat on but tea and coffee is provided before the day and also lunch which normally includes soup, rolls and a sellection of cakes, all of this is eaten with the guns so there is no feeling of us and them and we are all in the lambing sheds so very often we see lambs being born. Its not about the money for me, it is about being in the countryside with people who have the same interests as you and seeing dogs working and some fine birds being shot.

Honestly, i would do it for free!

exactly as it should be! many of the guns on our shoot were beaters on the same ground beforehand, there's no them and us and we're all friends, all of whom turn up for the craik and social side more than anything else.

 

I appreciate is must be different for the larger shoots however.

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  • 1 month later...

25 or 30 a day with us in east anglia , some pay 30 but dont have a cock day at end of season , we work on the same way viewed as a tip so no tax , although i have heard of a couple of bigger commercial shoots lads have left because of the tax issue

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We have two official beaters days cocks only plus if you have done a bit more there are some boundary days plus shooting at the dog trails. Some of the beaters have as many as 5 or 6 shooting days at the end of the season. I went to the two cocks only days and we shot just over 500 birds. If that was at £35 per bird plus vat that's charged that's about £10500 for the day. Makes up for the lower pay packet I guess.

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£3000 for the season next to my house. I beat a few times at £20 a day but would rather go out and draw a blank than stand around for 8 hours banging a bush.[/

 

Never done an 8 hour day yet, six is more typical, with 30 minutes to an hour for lunch.

Edited by scolopax
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£3000 for the season next to my house. I beat a few times at £20 a day but would rather go out and draw a blank than stand around for 8 hours banging a bush.[/

 

Never done an 8 hour day yet, six is more typical, with 30 minutes to an hour for lunch.

 

Will depend wot ur doing, generally on pheasants daylight is too short to really do long days.

 

But i have seen on grouse or sept hill partridge an 8hr day would be the norm and 10 is not unusual and even a 12hr day is not unheard off (althou that usually means u have had a few hours off with weather/mist) or else pushing for a big bag.

1 moor a go to it is not unusual to be a 14-16hr day door to door (about 1 1/2 hrs travel each way) all for 50 quid, sometimes i think i need my head examined :hmm:

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They are getting £50 a day at cotherstone on the grouse and £40 a day on the pheasants at leyburn.so if that's the case they will have to add £7.50 on these prices to.

Did a day on Cotherstone a few years ago, young man's sport, especially in late summer. I had a job to keep up.

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  • 1 month later...

I often wondered how many keepers actually do declare their tips on a tax return?

On a shoot doing 15 - 20 days, say 8 guns, ave £50 = £6k - £8k in tips!!!

I have often wondered this myself.

Bet you dont get and answer ;)

Edited by masmiffy
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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Shoots don't want to stop tax from beaters pay, but most shoots are forced to under the RTI rules. Keepers tips are exempt from PAYE, but are still taxable and should be declared by the keeper

Correct tips are taxable,the estate should pay beating wage through RTI.Tips should be collected or given to the tronk master usually there will be an addition submission by the tronk master.So beater/short term employee should get 2x p45's

RTI complicated it for big shoots but for small DIY shoots that take on beaters i dont know why it became complicated as long as its not additional income over £2500.Then it wouldnt require you to complete self assesment.You would just phone the tax office and declair say £1200 or what ever.They would just simply put a restriction in you main PAYE code.This way you put the beating money in your pocked gross and your main emp deducts 20% or 40% dep on your cercumstances and the restriction in your tax code.

Edited by Davyo
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My understanding of RTI rules - and this applies to all casual labour - is that it is paid gross and recipient then declares to HMRC who taxes (if total earning from all sources exceeds tax allowences - £11k?) by adjusting tax code. I've been doing this for 3yrs now and can see no reason to change. It's all online and for me, even with 3 sources of income, it work well.

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  • 2 months later...

Now we are getting into the season has anyone noticed any change to system where you know your wages etc are being notified to HMRC? Just asking as I'm out beating next week where I've been warned the Estate is going to pay our tax.

Last year our estate paid the tax..(still got a bloody bill).

This year the y have upped the pickers up money from 45 to 60 quid but now everyone has to be self employed and pay their own tax, think this is also swerves the auto enrolment pension thing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My understanding of RTI rules - and this applies to all casual labour - is that it is paid gross and recipient then declares to HMRC who taxes (if total earning from all sources exceeds tax allowences - £11k?) by adjusting tax code. I've been doing this for 3yrs now and can see no reason to change. It's all online and for me, even with 3 sources of income, it work well.

Bang on the button mate,

If you already have a PAYE source you simply phone the tax office or do it through your PTA (personal tax account) this means you will have a restriction put in your tax code and pay the tax due on your beating wage (that you keep in your pocket gross) through you PAYE income be it a emplyment or a pension.The only exeption to this rule is if you (are stupid enough ) to invoice the shoot for your services.The issue of an invoice effectively means you are selfemployed even if you're earnings are below the PA of 11000.However some big estates may payroll you (RTI) and opperate a BR code deducting tax at 20% so paying you net.Only caution here is that you may be a 40% tax payer so effectivly you beating code should be DO.If you are already self employed then just declair your beating income on your rtn.

Anyone thats PAYE or Self employed needs to apply for their PTA,it will become compulsory come 2020.

Edited by Davyo
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