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Electric Collar


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there's Moore people youse these collars than let on, talking to a lad in a gun shop one day, the lad comes on here lovely dog well trained.

it was the time when i was deliberating on using one on my dog after nearly loosing her on a busy main road after one of her daft runs, he said to me is she a springer shave her neck so it makes a good contact :P it only took a few jolts never used it since

the collar is going to be lent to a young lady whose cocker has the same problem (seen sitting in the middle of a main road with cars swerving round her dog

and no i didnt shave her neck and it was always kept on low

and yes i have took a bigger shock from a sadistic teacher who used to tell us to hold hands while he past a charge through us ?????????:lol: getting higher and higher to Se who would back out :P

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Here's a view from someone much more versed on these things than me..

 

"This topic has spawned more transatlantic differences than any other. Basically, electronic collars are far more common and acceptable in the USA than they are in Britain.

 

The British thinking on this is absolutely straightforward. Over generations of careful breeding, the UK gene pools of the common gundog breeds have developed to contain a high degree of genetic predisposition to "trainability" and a natural ability to retrieve and hunt. A puppy from good stock should be easily trained without the need for an electric collar. The worry is that if a "hard to train" dog, lacking in those genetic qualities, was nevertheless successfully trained using the hard methods, it might go on to win in the field and subsequently be bred from, or bred from for other reasons. The result is a contamination of the gene pool and a dilution of the positive qualities that have been built up over generations of careful breeding.

 

In America it is accepted that methods such as the electronic collar might be necessary in order to successfully train a dog in the shortest possible time, especially for advanced field trial or hunt test work.

 

My own theory is that sometimes an e-collar may be used to compensate for shortcomings in the trainer. If you feel you must use a collar, then in the UK at least do not breed from your dog, no matter how good a gundog they become."

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I know of a man who had a male Lab of a superior FTCH pedigree and was trained by a well known and respected trainer, within a few months the lab was a liability and despite returning to the trainer and coming back a paragon of virtue several times he tried using an electric collar.

The fault was with himself not the dog, he would wander about and the dog would be several hundred yards ahead and the owner was oblivious of it. things came to a head when it attacked and almost killed a Roebuck infront of myself, the 3rd he had brought down to my knowledge. When I confronted him he exclaimed" Well how can I be expected to keep up with him"...... nuff said ???

 

BTW - I have 2 spaniel bitches that beat, pick up, wildfowl, pigeons, driven days etc. etc. on a regular basis and have never needed a collar.

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"sometimes an e-collar may be used to compensate for shortcomings in the trainer.!"

 

This was my point on the subject..

 

People want their dog to do everything now - not when the dog is ready..

 

A big mistake that seems common is comparing your dog with someone elses..they,re all different and all develop at different stages..

 

Would you not feel more satisfaction in taking a little longer and having your dog work for you cos it wants to or have it do it cos your making it...so that it makes you look good in front of your buddies..

 

On shoots i,ve been on including ours i know which dogs/handlers are more thought of..

 

GH

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"sometimes an e-collar may be used to compensate for shortcomings in the trainer.!"

 

This was my point on the subject..

 

People want their dog to do everything now - not when the dog is ready..

 

A big mistake that seems common is comparing your dog with someone elses..they,re all different and all develop at different stages..

 

Would you not feel more satisfaction in taking a little longer and having your dog work for you cos it wants to or have it do it cos your making it...so that it makes you look good in front of your buddies..

 

On shoots i,ve been on including ours i know which dogs/handlers are more thought of..

 

GH

 

:good:

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My own theory is that sometimes an e-collar may be used to compensate for shortcomings in the trainer. If you feel you must use a collar, then in the UK at least do not breed from your dog, no matter how good a gundog they become."

 

My sentiments excatly, time is a key factor training dogs, training in stages, bringing the dog on a bit at a time, & rewarding the dog, not punishing it.

 

People want their dog to do everything now - not when the dog is ready..

 

Valid point GH, I think some want the made one early version, ready made out of the crisp packet, haven't the time to spend with the dog.

 

While there on, why not connect the dog to some 3 core 240v cable, and make a proper job of it.

 

BJ

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I really was trying to stay out of this one, however I would like to bring just a couple of things to everyones attention.

 

Number 1

 

If you think that E-collars are suppose to be used to shock a dog into doing what you want Than You DO NOT know what you are talking about.

 

Number 2

 

If you think that E-collars are used to introduce pain to your dog Than You DO NOT know what you are talking about.

 

Collars are meant to allow you to correct your dog at a distance exactly when a mistake is made. When a collar is used correctly this correction is like a poke of the finger, or the scratching of the palm, it is not a painful experiance. Used correctly they are a fabulous training tool.

 

Just like in ferreting and terriers where most people wont go to ground without a locator collar on anymore, because......." Electronics have brought the sport into the modern day, and have eliminated many of the culties of the past"....ecollars have brought training into the modern day and eliminated many of the crulties of the past. Someone in this thread asked if there were not well trained and behaved dogs before collars, the answer is yes there was. However do you know what happened to the ones that needed differant handling, firmer corrections, or too much chasing down? Those dogs were hit with sticks, shot at with catapalts, lashed with leads, kicked, and if they still did not comform to the so called trainer they were shot and left in a ditch or hedgerow some where.

 

Used correctly collars are not meant to train a dog faster or easier, they are a tool to train more efficiently with better timing and more control on corrections.

 

And I agree if someone uses them incorrectly, or does not take the time to introduce the inactive collar for a week before determining the correct stimulation level, or is carried away with the number of times they use it, then it is abuse. It is the same abuse as the trainer that constantly hits their dog with a lead, or stick or boot.

 

There are Good Trainers and there are Bad Trainers, so instead of blaming the equiptment blame the person handling it. Open your mind up to new ways of training, you will be surprised at what you learn. People who train professionally are constantly learning from the dogs they train as well as other trainers and handlers it is never a static program.

 

If you are thinking of using a collar, then get training in the use of one before you try it on your dog. If you are interested in useing one but are unsure of how to go about it then contact me and I will go through it step by step with you free of charge.

 

Enough Said,

 

NTTF

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"Someone in this thread asked if there were not well trained and behaved dogs before collars, the answer is yes there was. However do you know what happened to the ones that needed differant handling, firmer corrections, or too much chasing down? Those dogs were hit with sticks, shot at with catapalts, lashed with leads, kicked, and if they still did not comform to the so called trainer they were shot and left in a ditch or hedgerow some where."

 

I asked that Q....and sorry NTTF but i dont know what its like where you live but we,re a lot more civilised over here..in general.Your laws and regulations are not as strict as ours.Read some of your recent posts,you have no qualms about leg trapping foxes.Therfore silly me i just assumed you had no problem inflicting pain on animals.

 

If its just to get the dogs attention at distance,don,t you have whistles over there? And why are you avoiding the word electic?

 

Of course electronics have modernised our activities,but these are not comparable to locators.

 

If you read the posts correctly the collars are not being blamed but the owners impatience.If you ain,t got the time to put into a dog then don,t get one!

 

What is annoying is that people are offering there thoughts and opinions on this subject,then you come on with a "i am right and your wrong attitude" quite rude to highlight the DO NOT words on your post don,t you think.My opinion of you now fella is that u believe to much of your own press.

 

As you say enough said.

 

GH

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GrassHopper,

 

You are correct I do post about leg hold traps, as they are legel here, and the new style traps are not the maiming traps of old. Most animals caught in them are curled up asleep when found. But that is a differant issue.

 

The Bold was meant as a way of stressing a point that was all. It was not meant to be rude and I am sorry if you took it that way.

 

And yes we do have whistles over here. But just getting attention is not the only point in training. When your dog has made a mistake you have 8 seconds to make a correction or it is no longer in the dogs head as to what he is being corrected for. Sorry but if the dog is out away from its handler, in most cases by the time you reach him, get him back to the place he made the mistake and corrected him that time has elasped.

 

And once again I am sorry if you think I have a I am right , You are wrong attitude, but in this case I believe you are incorrect. I have a very open mind when it comes to training, and constantly am learning. My point was and is the equiptment is not to blame the inappropriate use of it is, and many peoples beliefs are that the collars are to be used as punishment which is not the case.

 

And as far as believing too much of my on press... well then I guess I will just be quiet on training questions from here on out, as I am tired of the" You are not from here , so you do not know what you are talking about from posters on the UK boards"

 

Cheers,

NTTF

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I just think you need to realise that most of the posts on this thread are peoples thoughts and general perceptions of these collars,where as you will not have anyone disagreeing with them..end of in your view.

 

We all live in a democracy and differences of opinion is what makes the world and P W an interesting place,if we can,t discuss topics and allow each other a view..right or wrong then where do we go from here?

 

This topic of collars is an emotive one,agreed,but it can,t be put down to right or wrong just peoples own views.Mine being that some of the satisfaction is lost by using one.

 

If people wish to use one then that is for them and i won,t tell them not to!!!!

 

GH

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I think really all one needs to know is that NTTF is an experienced dog trainer who not long ago was offering a board member a free weeks dog training for the cost of flights.

 

If he has an opinion on dog training and training aids then I for one am listening. National law has nothing to do with it!

 

You may not like the idea of a collar but that does not mean it is not a good training aid and that they should not be used.

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>Lets get one thing straight an electric collar is NOT and never should be a training aid - its an instrument of correction

 

>to quote NTTF....................

 

 

By using an "instrument of correction" to assist you in correcting your dog when it does something wrong, you are surely teaching it how to do things. How does this differ from training your dog?

 

To quote NTTF: "But just getting attention is not the only point in training" and "Used correctly they are a fabulous training tool"

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And as far as believing too much of my on press... well then I guess I will just be quiet on training questions from here on out, as I am tired of the" You are not from here , so you do not know what you are talking about from posters on the UK boards"

 

Cheers,

NTTF

 

 

Carry on posting in here NTTF - electric collars used correctly are a useful training aid / method of correction - or what ever anyone wants to call it.

I've got 4 dogs & have only ever used the collar on one dog - it was on a low setting - just enough to get his attention and only had to use it a few times. Some dogs are too headstrong & I agree what you posted earlier - they must be corrected straight away - which is difficult when they are 20 yards away & impossible at over 50 yards away - by the time you get to them they would not know what they are being punished for.

 

The collar I use has got a vibrate on it to get the dogs attention - I've seen others that make a beep, and usually this is enough to get the dogs attention without having to give them a mild shock.

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I have seen them used very effectively on a dog, by a very skilled dog trainer, who had a problem. His dog, which was otherwise excellent, had a thing about snakes.

 

When it had been bitten twice, and narrowly escaped death, he turned to the collar, and took advice from our friends over the pond.

 

The dog is now tottering around the farm at a ripe old age, lives in the house and has had a full and happy life. My friend has never used the collar since, but it did the job for him on that occasion. I believe them to be like anything else, a tool is only as good as the person using it.

 

Training methods differ from person to person, and place to place, I enjoy coming here and reading and learning, it would be a shame if that was to stop.

 

Best regards

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Ill stick my hand up for NTTF on this one aswell.

 

From my previews of this board, it would seem that NTTF is the man to ask when it comes to training and dog questions.

 

Certainly helped me out a few times and my friends.

 

Every person will have their own oppinion, and you are allowed to have them, any one given their dog a smack on the nose, a rap on the chin, a pull on the lead, a scruff of the neck, a bend of the ear, a jet with the hose pipe, a squirt of water from a water pistol when they have been misbehaving...........

 

I think I would be safe in saying that around 99% of us have........

 

I have.......................

 

As NTTF has said these devices have brought a "factor" of training into the modern era.

 

 

Would I use one for training.................................Yes.

 

Would I use it properly, I need to do some more research on how to use them.

 

Would I use it to neglect or abuse my dog - NO.

 

 

Stands back, dons ivy leaf clothing and waits for INCOMING...... :good:

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