Farage finally exposed

[yod dropper]

I do find it interesting how abusive terms are thrown about. Some people see racism or discrimination and prejudice everywhere.

 

John McDonnell describes Tony Blair's Labour as right-wing tory. I've often seen tories described as fascists and nazis. In the ever changing world of political thought the term racism is now as much to do with gender and socio-economic advantage as ethnicity (honestly and just think about the implications for who can say what - talk about closing down free speech). On a recent radio comedy program one of the buzzer sounds was the word 'racist' which I think nicely sums up that the term is becoming meaningless and comedic.

Edited June 21, 2016 by yod dropper

[oowee]

Weatherspoons, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Airbus, Sainsbury.

Who would classify any of those as a "small business"?

No one. They all want in except Weatherspons that wants us to drown our sorrows with an out vote

Come to think of it that's not a bad idea. Anyone fancy a beer friday night win or loose its a good enough reason to have one.

[oowee]

What you fail to realise is that what's good for Alan sugar and the like is very often not so good for the average working Joe, for example Mr sugar would love nothing more than wages to stagnate and a mass of cheap labour from abroad, he doesn't care the NHS is swamped he'll have private health care etc that is the opposite of, to quote cetain peoples exact figures 95% of the population and their mothers

Oh I thought what was good for the average working Jo's employer was probably good for the average Jo too.

[Gordon R]

Savhmr - agreed.

 

yod dropper - agreed.

 

I will be voting "out". Of the 50 or so people I have spoken to on the subject, two are voting to remain. The rest are also voting "out".

Edited June 21, 2016 by Gordon R

[brett1985]

 

The truth is no one knows what will happen if the UK leaves including you.

exactly. everything that has been put forward by both parties is entirely theoretical.

I'm happy to take the risk and put in the graft to make it work, where as some would rather sit tight and try to change the beast by persuasion.

either way, its a long road to travel....

 

the simple fact is nether side knows what will happen in 6 months 2 years 5 years 10 years 25 years if we stay or go it boils down to a few key points, are you happy to give away your sovereignty and self rule verses being part of the worlds largest trading block that's about it

you do make a valid point, and I wont argue that being part of the 'free trade' block is beneficial.

I will, however, say that trade deals can be regained (albeit at a price), but once sovereignty and self rule is removed it will be all but impossible to regain.

its a point worth thinking about imo.

[Savhmr]

The elephant on the room for those arguing the "IN" position against a Brexit is this: Everyone is agreed that the value of the pound will drop immediately after a Brexit with GDP growth expected to slow down by up to 0.8% over the next two years if we start negotiating trade deals once Article 50 has been enacted.

 

The effects of lowering the value of the pound on the world market, which lets remind ourselves again represents 56% of all UK exports, including service exports, will be a better deal for buying British from overseas, so the world trade market will grow instead of shrink.

 

This is conveniently brushed to one side by the Remain camp, but it can't be ignored. The slow down in the EU economy is set to continue by all forecasts from the very people who forecast the a Brexit will slow our growth, based mostly on the increased cost of trade with the EU. Unless I'm missing something here, how does that work then? Much of the EU is suffering its highest unemployment and highest immigration in decades with several countries on the verge of needing bail out again, which in turn will have to lead to a further devaluation of the Euro (even Germany are agreed with this view point unless of course Britain decides it would like to bail out Greece and Spain?).

 

The fact that we have one of the strongest of EU economies, our very success, in part is that we are not in the Eurozone and that we remain a very productive and efficient nation. The world wants to do business with us. The effects of a slow down in the European economy will continue to hit us whether we remain or leave so it is a false argument to state one without the other.

 

The drop in the Pound will lead to an increase in exports and it will come at a time when we are negotiating with other main world trade blocs, so couldn't come at a better time.

 

The outlook is stronger and brighter than we think outside the EU so don't let the politicians and those with big interests (hence their own agendas) in Europe put you off with their underhand scaremongering tactics.

 

To borrow a few statistics from speeches by Dan Hannan, one of the very best and eloquently spoken wordsmiths for "Leave", we are the world's 5th largest economy, we have the world's 5th most powerful armed forces and a place at the Security Council and are a major player in Nato and the United Nations. If that doesn't make us "big enough" or strong enough to stand on our own two feet, what does? Is Japan sinking beneath the world trade waves or Australia floundering to survive, or New Zealand quaking in it's boots because it fears rule and sovereignty being stripped by Australia? Of course not! They thrive on their own and so shall we!

Edited June 21, 2016 by Savhmr

[Gordon R]

Well said.

[Salopian]

I do notice that Switzerland and Norway never feature in these debates?

Born at the end of WW11 I have lived through austerity and rationing, I have witnessed Lord Digby Jones's false claims of how to run British Industry plus witnessed his U turns, I have witnessed Tony Blair's numerous lies and nearly bringing Britain to its knees, I have seen a Salmond and Sturgeon (fishy pair) try to ruin Britain, I have seen two Irish murdering thugs become MP's.

In my life time I have only known one true politician, Enoch Powell. A very highly educated scholar who was correct then and being proved correct now.

Let us all not forget Lee Rigby , get rid of sponging scum and return Britain back to being Great.

[TONY R]

Not to worry it will all be over in a couple of days only got to suffer debate for just one more day, then we will know.

[stalker58]

4 Syrians charged last week with sexually assaulting a 14 year old girl, one of them was here on the Governments resettlement scheme. It is getting a joke

[longspoon]

I wish one of you would make an intellectual argument instead of this peculiar self indulgence.

If I thought for one moment that you are for real, I'd be worried, let your carer give your posts the once over to save embarassment

[felly100]

Whatever you want

Whatever you like

Whatever you say

You pay your money

You take your choice

Whatever you need

Whatever you use

Whatever you win

Whatever

 

In for me

I'm going with the Status Quo

[Piebob]

Hear hear. I have been disappointed that the normal PW mode of healthy debate with a bit of Micky taking thrown in has been lost in leu of vitriol.

 

The Scots saw this in the run-up to the Indy Ref vote. Unfortunately, the vitriol continues to rear its ugly head - some people just can't seem to move on. I fear the same after Thursday, no matter the outcome.

[ladyjack]

The vote will be rigged to stay in (hundreds of postal votes been lost/miss placed already in County Durham) so that's mine and my wife's OUT vote poss lost among them.Going fishing on Thursday providing the Poles haven't stolen all the Carp!

at last something made me laugh,(providing poles havent stolen all the carp)they proberly have, because all my spuds have been pinched out of my veg garden,

Edited June 21, 2016 by ladyjack

[ladyjack]

I do notice that Switzerland and Norway never feature in these debates?

Born at the end of WW11 I have lived through austerity and rationing, I have witnessed Lord Digby Jones's false claims of how to run British Industry plus witnessed his U turns, I have witnessed Tony Blair's numerous lies and nearly bringing Britain to its knees, I have seen a Salmond and Sturgeon (fishy pair) try to ruin Britain, I have seen two Irish murdering thugs become MP's.

In my life time I have only known one true politician, Enoch Powell. A very highly educated scholar who was correct then and being proved correct now.

Let us all not forget Lee Rigby , get rid of sponging scum and return Britain back to being Great.

at last someone i totaly agree with,well said,that man,(SALOPIAN FOR NEXT PRIME MINISTER) YOU HAVE MY VOTE.

[secretagentmole]

 

"Shoting: English slang for somone that's dealing" (source:Urban Dictionary). I know some fish dealers but not any fish dealers

 

 

As for your Farage comment:

 

That's a complete non-argument. The weakest non-argument I've heard to date for remaining in the EU. It's a bit like saying because the Queen likes corgis we all have to use them as gundogs

 

Who cares what Farage thinks? It's what the voter thinks that matters and just to remind you, Farage wont be running the county or even in government if we leave the EU and nor does he represent OUT voters. He represents himself and UKIP.

I had a Corgi that thought it was a deer hound, had a good go at Bambi's Dad in Sandringham woods. Little swine got to within 6 ft of the stag when the stag just leapt over a Rhododendron bush, poor old Monty screeched to a halt and just stared at the top of the bush as if to say "Sod that for a game!"

[FalconFN]

Whatever you want

Whatever you like

Whatever you say

You pay your money

You take your choice

Whatever you need

Whatever you use

Whatever you win

Whatever

 

In for me

I'm going with the Status Quo

Should I stay or should I go now?

 

I've been okey-cokeying for ages and I'm still with the Clash on this one.

[islandgun]

Whatever you want

Whatever you like

Whatever you say

You pay your money

You take your choice

Whatever you need

Whatever you use

Whatever you win

Whatever

 

In for me

I'm going with the Status Quo

 

I had no idea their lyrics were so profound

[Savhmr]

 

The Scots saw this in the run-up to the Indy Ref vote. Unfortunately, the vitriol continues to rear its ugly head - some people just can't seem to move on. I fear the same after Thursday, no matter the outcome.

 

 

I'm afraid it has less to do with moving on, and more to do with increased awareness, brought on by the insights and realisations during the campaign. It is natural that there be many who have only really woken up to the facts of the past 20 years of EU steam-rollering towards a federal and increasingly corrupt EU, perhaps people who were happy with the status-quo until they realised just what a ride they've been taken for. That isn't going to go away with this generation.

[Dave-G]

That'll be about 32 countries deciding what is best for us in the EU with the latest countries about to enter - and most of them have their hands out for money.

[Les*1066]

I can almost see Friday's headlines now.

 

51% 'OUT' = a narrow margin that will require a second referendum.

 

51% 'IN' = a resounding vote in favour of the EU.

[12gauge82]

Oh I thought what was good for the average working Jo's employer was probably good for the average Jo too.

No it's not, mass immigration proven to have driven average Jo's wages down, many other reasons to, so yeah if I was the head of a huge business I'd want to remain to. So no wonder most large businesses want to stay in

[12gauge82]

I do notice that Switzerland and Norway never feature in these debates?

Born at the end of WW11 I have lived through austerity and rationing, I have witnessed Lord Digby Jones's false claims of how to run British Industry plus witnessed his U turns, I have witnessed Tony Blair's numerous lies and nearly bringing Britain to its knees, I have seen a Salmond and Sturgeon (fishy pair) try to ruin Britain, I have seen two Irish murdering thugs become MP's.

In my life time I have only known one true politician, Enoch Powell. A very highly educated scholar who was correct then and being proved correct now.

Let us all not forget Lee Rigby , get rid of sponging scum and return Britain back to being Great.

What annoys the hell out of me and I tried to make a point of it on another thread is that no one takes note of the older generations opinions, they have the life experience and saw the lies when they were tricked into joining first time around, the bremainers will say "it's not on older people voting out, its the young who will see the impact" what they fail to see is its the older people who have the experience who are trying to ensure the younger generation don't get tucked up like they were. On a separate note I remember speaking to an old timer before Iraq was invaded he said how the politicians hadn't seen war and it wouldn't improve the situation and was dead against it, young folk patronised him implying he didn't know what he was talking about, I always remembered his wise words when the full extent and impact of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan came to light.

[rodp]

Mostly small business wants in particularly those that don't export. Weatherspoons of course will all want to drown our sorrows over the next few years if we vote out. I also see that 'leave EU' has been fined £50k for spam texts

 

Alan Sugar is funding remain describing leaving a 'massive mistake'. Also Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Airbus

Lord Sainsbury £2.7m for remain

Would you care to tell me how many of those have to live in a street full of the detritus that comes with this strong economy that staying in will bring? None ?? Now there's a surprise !

 

There's more to this than a couple of extra quid in your pocket. Be very interesting to know just how many of the "In" brigade actually live in an inner city flooded with immigrants, not many I'd guess .

 

Be prepared though, if we stay in the next instalment's coming your way, we're already full around here, let's see who whinges then !!

[Scully]

I've just listened to a woman on tv who runs a 'small business' who claims that over 60% of hindrance to her business comes via the EU and is voting out. According to her, small businesses are the UK's biggest employer, if I heard her right.

Roll on Friday; can't wait for the result!