raphael262 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 i have just got off the phone to me FEO , they wont grant me an open ticket straight off which is really what i need ! doesn't also help being 17 but ha ho , he told me even with a closed ticket as long as the ground is cleared for rifles and i can make sure of that i dont need to inform them of the permission if i want to go out shooting on it . now this has thrown everything ive ever known?? can you get a "semi open" ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sounds right I think. You can shoot on your piece of permission as they've cleared it for the calibre you hold, In addition, you can shoot another piece of land ie someone else's permission, PROVIDED that you can show that You Have Permission AND that piece of land has been passed by Police for the calibre you have. If your ticket was open, The decision on wether a piece of land is suitable would be down to you. That's as I understood it but please check with your licensing authority (now watch me get shot down) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael262 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sounds right I think. You can shoot on your piece of permission as they've cleared it for the calibre you hold, In addition, you can shoot another piece of land ie someone else's permission, PROVIDED that you can show that You Have Permission AND that piece of land has been passed by Police for the calibre you have. If your ticket was open, The decision on wether a piece of land is suitable would be down to you. That's as I understood it but please check with your licensing authority (now watch me get shot down) yes exactly ! alot of the shooting i get is invite rather than having permission so i havent really got time to call up my feo and get the ground written down on my ticket when a keeper goes " can you sit out for me tonight ive got a fox lurking about" haha ! lets see what everyone else has to say about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) yes exactly ! alot of the shooting i get is invite rather than having permission so i havent really got time to call up my feo and get the ground written down on my ticket when a keeper goes " can you sit out for me tonight ive got a fox lurking about" haha ! lets see what everyone else has to say about it Its simple, on your closed ticket you can shoot on any ground passed my the police for the calibre you use (if you have permission also), so if the gamekeepers land is passed already for the calibre you use you are ok, dont need on your ticket. You need to ask him has the land been passed for your calibre. Problem is if he is shooting on his open ticket, it may not be passed by the police. Don't risk shooting on it if the land is not passed by the police as you will be in the **** Edited June 30, 2016 by reggiegun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 As already said. The land MUST have been passed by the police for the calibre of rifle YOU will be using, no matter what anyone else may be using on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael262 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Its simple, on your closed ticket you can shoot on any ground passed my the police for the calibre you use (if you have permission also), so if the gamekeepers land is passed already for the calibre you use you are ok, dont need on your ticket. You need to ask him has the land been passed for your calibre. Problem is if he is shooting on his open ticket, it may not be passed by the police. Don't risk shooting on it if the land is not passed by the police as you will be in the **** yes all the ground in question is passed for bigger calibres than i intend to use. i dont have the "permission" as such where i go out alone ect but more of i go out when im asked to , so i assume in this situation i wouldn't have to inform the feo of going out on this ground as long as its cleared for my calibres ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 In the past when I've had invites I emailed northumbria police with details of the land, and they replied within a few hours. On one occasion even getting in touch within the hour. Unfortunately other areas may not be as efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) yes all the ground in question is passed for bigger calibres than i intend to use. i dont have the "permission" as such where i go out alone ect but more of i go out when im asked to , so i assume in this situation i wouldn't have to inform the feo of going out on this ground as long as its cleared for my calibres ? Are you absolutely, bet-your-life-on-it, certain that the land has been passed for those calibres ? Or is it that the other shooters are on open tickets, which basically means the land does not need to be cleared for them to shoot on it Oh, and in most cases a keeper does not have the authority to grant you permission to shoot - only the landowner, land occupier, or the holder of the shooting rights can grant such permission. Edited June 30, 2016 by robbiep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael262 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Are you absolutely, bet-your-life-on-it, certain that the land has been passed for those calibres ? Or is it that the other shooters are on open tickets, which basically means the land does not need to be cleared for them to shoot on it Oh, and in most cases a keeper does not have the authority to grant you permission to shoot - only the landowner, land occupier, or the holder of the shooting rights can grant such permission. yes im sure its cleared as one of the underkeepers has a closed ticket and has had it all cleared up to .243 and as for not giving me the rights i think they must have spoken to their bosses about it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) A while ago I was given permission by a farm owner to shoot on his farm . He said "it should be fine" purely based on the fact that "another shooter" had used a .308 there. I didn't want to end up being caught out by the previous shooter having an open ticket. I called my Firearms Department and gave them the details of the owner and the farm concerned. He just tapped the details in, then said yes it's already been cleared previously (several years) to .308, and that I was fine to carry on and shoot on the land. Although, I did have to send in a signed consent form from the farm owner. That's West Mercia though. Maybe different elsewhere?? Edited June 30, 2016 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 i have just got off the phone to me FEO , they wont grant me an open ticket straight off which is really what i need ! doesn't also help being 17 but ha ho , he told me even with a closed ticket as long as the ground is cleared for rifles and i can make sure of that i dont need to inform them of the permission if i want to go out shooting on it . now this has thrown everything ive ever known?? can you get a "semi open" ticket you were expecting a lot for a 17yr old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) i have just got off the phone to me FEO , they wont grant me an open ticket straight off which is really what i need ! doesn't also help being 17 but ha ho , he told me even with a closed ticket as long as the ground is cleared for rifles and i can make sure of that i dont need to inform them of the permission if i want to go out shooting on it . now this has thrown everything ive ever known?? can you get a "semi open" ticket I got a semi when they opened mine 😄😄Why did you need it opened straight away , do wot I did gave them about six different permissions few miles apart and a letter from two farmers saying to shoot all there land Edited June 30, 2016 by bullet1747 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I got a semi when they opened mine Why did you need it opened straight away , do wot I did gave them about six different permissions few miles apart and a letter from two farmers saying to shoot all there land Never saw the 17 year age bit you are asking a lot , all though age doesn't come in to it if you have FAC but not officially an adult till 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleSimon Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 ... Although, I did have to send in a signed consent form from the farm owner. That's West Mercia though. Maybe different elsewhere?? They have no need or right to ask you for a "consent form" if your FAC has already been granted and has the relevant quarry condition (otherwise they might ask for proof of a permission to show your "good reason" for the calibre/condition) I'd have politely declined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael262 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Never saw the 17 year age bit you are asking a lot , all though age doesn't come in to it if you have FAC but not officially an adult till 18 I'm 18 in a month so everything should be okay you were expecting a lot for a 17yr old I know I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 They have no need or right to ask you for a "consent form" if your FAC has already been granted and has the relevant quarry condition (otherwise they might ask for proof of a permission to show your "good reason" for the calibre/condition) I'd have politely declined. It's a fair point Simon, but as that's what he asked, and I could get it so easily, I went ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbreakfast Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Are you absolutely, bet-your-life-on-it, certain that the land has been passed for those calibres ? Or is it that the other shooters are on open tickets, which basically means the land does not need to be cleared for them to shoot on it Oh, and in most cases a keeper does not have the authority to grant you permission to shoot - only the landowner, land occupier, or the holder of the shooting rights can grant such permission. The gamekeeper is a land occupier!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 The gamekeeper is a land occupier!! Not necessarily - and not for the purposes of the law as to being able to grant permission for others to shoot. For example, imagine a large shoot that has a full time keeper. Are you really saying, for the purposes of the law, that the keeper has the rights to allowing others to shoot on the land without recourse to the landowner ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Not necessarily - and not for the purposes of the law as to being able to grant permission for others to shoot. For example, imagine a large shoot that has a full time keeper. Are you really saying, for the purposes of the law, that the keeper has the rights to allowing others to shoot on the land without recourse to the landowner ? Yes. Every estate that I or my father (and all the other keepers I know) have keepered on have had the authority to allow others to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Yes. Every estate that I or my father (and all the other keepers I know) have keepered on have had the authority to allow others to shoot. Indeed, a keeper may be authorised by the occupier to grant permission BUT he is not an occupier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbreakfast Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Indeed, a keeper may be authorised by the occupier to grant permission BUT he is not an occupier. An occupier is someone who works on the land that being the keeper. The land owner who owns the shooting rights has most of the say but if you go to a land owner and ask for permision and can say on 90% of the time they will say go ask my keeper. Same as if someone rents some fields off them because they are working the land he has the right to send a friend to shoot pest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 An occupier is someone who works on the land that being the keeper. The land owner who owns the shooting rights has most of the say but if you go to a land owner and ask for permision and can say on 90% of the time they will say go ask my keeper. Same as if someone rents some fields off them because they are working the land he has the right to send a friend to shoot pest. Not quite correct but in most circumstances they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 An occupier is someone who works on the land that being the keeper. The land owner who owns the shooting rights has most of the say but if you go to a land owner and ask for permision and can say on 90% of the time they will say go ask my keeper. Same as if someone rents some fields off them because they are working the land he has the right to send a friend to shoot pest. It would depend entirely on the agricultural tenancy agreement. I let several fields for grazing and do not confer any rights of occupancy in the agreement. These tenants can NOT give people permission to shoot. A keeper is an employee not an occupier and as such can only give permission, the same as with any other employee, if they have been given authority to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 It would depend entirely on the agricultural tenancy agreement. I let several fields for grazing and do not confer any rights of occupancy in the agreement. These tenants can NOT give people permission to shoot. A keeper is an employee not an occupier and as such can only give permission, the same as with any other employee, if they have been given authority to do so. What I can't make out is why so many continually appear unable to understand this simple fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAsh Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 At the end of the day its a piece of paper stating you can shoot on that land that would appear in court and is easily obtained if you ask, if unable to provide that bit of papaer then a court would have to decide if you were given permission legally or no and verbal is not always proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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