Cocker bolting off

[dannyboy]

Hi Guys, just looking for some advice. Got a 10 month old cocker everything is going well training wise.

 

The issue he has tho is that if something catches his attention - Deer Scent/bird flying overhead or getting up. He will chase it, typically a bird will out run him but he will then switch into a hunting mode with his nose down and will run rings around a field, ignores anything shouting/whistling (this is the main problem, nothing will change his attention) until he burns him self out of energy (this can be 10/15 minutes), is when he will stop and then listen to a call to come back. Lost him for a little while 3 times (chasing a deer scent across a few fields) because of this, which is the main worry.

 

One trainer has suggested an electric collar would be the best bet to change his attention when he bolts off like that and then I can call him back or blow a stop whistle. What are your thoughts on this ?

 

 

[Fabarm74]

Yup get collar on him.

[pg123]

Find yourself a spot where you can train him without him getting to far away from you. A large garden or basketball court, maybe a dead end farm track with stone walls.

 

Every time he comes out of the kennel or transport box make him sit and wait to be told he can move. This teaches him respect for you and let's his blood pressure settle a little.

 

Forget retrieving and work hard on sit and stay, walking away from him while he waits, lots recall and sit whistle. When he's sat quiet throw a dummy in a direction you can step in his path if he tries to run in. Don't let him pick it until told.

 

Wear your running shoes and the moment he doesn't listen be on your toes after him.

 

You need to be his master. You don't need to beat him into submission but he must respect your command. Be firm but not over aggressive - it's a very fine line.

[tiny tim]

As above god advice

Back to basics ,get the dog steady and looking at you all times

Get your running shoes on,if it goes and doesn't respond to the stop whistle.....run it down ,give it a shake

Not sure about the collar ,they are a good tool in the right hands with a hard faced dog but will ruin a soft spanial

As above god advice

Back to basics ,get the dog steady and looking at you all times

Get your running shoes on,if it goes and doesn't respond to the stop whistle.....run it down ,give it a shake

Not sure about the collar ,they are a good tool in the right hands with a hard faced dog but will ruin a soft spanial

[PERCE]

Got a 10 month old cocker everything is going well training wise.

 

 

 

 

 

Not it's not!

 

Teach the dog that when you call, it comes back. Forget about training anything else until you've got this in place as the first three things you should have taught this pup is recall,recall,recall. You don't need an electric collar to do this but it may take some time as you've allowed this pup to find out life is much more fun doing what it pleases.

[bigbird]

^^ yup. Forget the electric collar for goodness sake. As PERCe says recall recall recall!!

[dannyboy]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

In terms of training going well, aside from this issue, what I meant is that, he sits on the whistle, comes back to the whistle, changes direction when quartering on the whistle. Marks and Retrieves well etc

 

I can have him sit up, through a dummy out, send him off for it, stop/sit whistle then call him back, then send him out again. All really great. But this problem when he bolts off, he doesn't listen to anything, he just has his nose down and runs and runs until he tires himself out. It is like a different dog during these episodes.

 

I can try and chase him down, but the chances of me catching a 10 month old cocker are slim. I am doing recall whistle with him a few times a day, just re-enforcing it around the house and on walks etc.

 

So the advice is to carry on with that and hope he grows out of bolting off, or in time he may listen to the recall/stop whistle when in this mode ? Rather than shocking him when he runs off to get his attention and call him back ?

[bigbird]

Do you let him free run and is that when this happens or does it happen when you're training?

[dannyboy]

I have let him free run before yes. This can happen at any time, when out training, on a walk, just going to the car, he might see a crow out in the field behind my house and go after it. :(

[bigbird]

:(

With a dog like that you're either training or he's on the lead. Sounds like he got into the habit when free running, realised you couldn't/didn't get out after him and the habit's escalated

The trick is for the dog never to realise that you aren't faster than him

[dannyboy]

yeh I have been trying to keep him that way over the past few weeks, on the lead walking to heal or training. The breeder says his Dad around 2 and half years old now, does this occasionally also, so seems it is in the genes too

Edited July 5, 2016 by dannyboy

[subsonicnat]

Back to:: Heel,Sit,Stay, I'm Afraid..

Must be bomb proof in the disciplines before moving on,Drives you mad,but must be got right..

My old spaniels would skid on their backsides to Stop..

Once its achieved you can be really chuffed with it walking to heel..

If you Stop, He sits automaticly,Forgot to say Heel up once,,, had to go back quarter of a mile to find her straining to look round a corner after I left her..

She was bomb proof, lost part of my soul when she went..

But still smile when I think of that day..

[simjakcal]

im no dog trainer as only 7mths into training my first ess...but have you tried a long line maybe 8/10m long so your in full control ? I wish you all the best

[dannyboy]

Yes I think going back to a long line could help, it would at least prevent the opportunity to run off. Just difficult for him to quarter in cover or do longer retrieves with a line on.

Does anyone think getting him into a rabbit pen or the like would help to make scents more natural and not have this negative effect on occasion ?

[PERCE]

Does anyone think getting him into a rabbit pen or the like would help to make scents more natural and not have this negative effect on occasion ?

 

I think the last place you want to take this dog is a rabbit pen. I'd be doing 100% obedience work with him & 0% hunting. No walks either.

[wj939]

yeh I have been trying to keep him that way over the past few weeks, on the lead walking to heal or training. The breeder says his Dad around 2 and half years old now, does this occasionally also, so seems it is in the genes too

Not likely in the nature rather more likely the nurture. BigBird is right, stick to that for a while and chase it down if needed, as long as you end up going to the dog rather than him coming back, it'll sink in.

 

Practise the recall with your back to him, when he can't see your body language, is he sharp to come back?

Also, don't Base your recall training on sitting him up, walking away and calling him in, the dog wants to come back to you its eager in that scenario, it's one people often show me and they are impressed they got 100yards away but in reality that's not the same as a recall at 10m when he's got something more interesting to focus on.

 

Back to basics on the recall. Good luck.

Edited July 6, 2016 by wj939

[dannyboy]

If I can chase him down, presumably a scruff would be appropriate. But if he does come back albeit after knackering him self out, I still need to praise this.

[wj939]

Yes, when you get him charge him down, grab him by the scruff and repeat your recall whistle and drag him back to roughly where you first called him from repeating all the way.

[hedge]

You've got a tough one here.

 

It's partly training but also as you've said, it appears to be in his genes.

 

My missus has got a lab/whippet cross - purely a pet. Very soft, gentle and great pet. Take her for a walk and she's fine, until she sees a rabbit. The whippet in her takes over and she's off. You won't get her back. complete autopilot, like someone flicked a switch.

 

I'm not saying that you can't train this out of a dog but you might need to work out how much is discipline related and how much is gene related.

 

I would agree with the recall, recall approach but I would also argue that no matter how much of that you do - you may still find that he runs off when tempted by something more exciting. You should ideally have a relationship with the dog, not master and servant (i.e he's not scared of you but willingly being obedient).

 

He is young but it's something that needs to be worked on.

 

I would suggest:

• Continue to build rapport with the dog
• Work hard on recall and stop whistle
• Reward good behaviour

Also - I would actually suggest you try a rabbit pen. What you need is the stimulus that he has to run off but in a controlled environment. Walk him on a lead - if he bolts you can control him - "leave" is the usual command. Even if he pulls or shows interest, you tell him to leave it. Maybe then try a long lead so he feels less restrained and see if he still does it. Ideally you progress to being off the lead. If he does bolt and doesn't respond at least he's in a restricted area and you can get him back, correct him and try again. After all, isn't that what rabbit pens are for?

 

You've got some work to do - there is clearly a trigger in there somewhere and once that is tripped then he's off.

 

It's a balance of building your relationship, his obedience and ideally teaching him that what he is doing is wrong. As has been said, it's a fine line between being firm but not forceful. I'm not a fan of collars myself.

 

Don't forget - once out in the field (on a shoot day), you may not have line of sight and won't know if he's chased something so he needs to learn not to do it, not just be told `no` when he does.

 

There will be a lot of suggestions so take your time and see which ones start to yield results.

 

The joys of dog ownership!

[dannyboy]

Thanks for the response Hedge, that is my next plan. Also Bigbird kind gave me a few tips over the phone. Much appreciated!

[motty]

I bought a book called 'Total Recall'. I wasn't having problems with my dog, but I like to read up on different techniques. It is only around £10 from Ebay and could sort this problem for you. It focuses on the dog returning to you no matter what distractions are in front of it, using food as a reward. The dog must see you as the most rewarding thing in it's life.

I personally think it is pointless trying to chase down a super fit dog - better to stop it just as it decides to charge off.

Best of luck.

[Ttfjlc]

I bought a book called 'Total Recall'. I wasn't having problems with my dog, but I like to read up on different techniques. It is only around £10 from Ebay and could sort this problem for you. It focuses on the dog returning to you no matter what distractions are in front of it, using food as a reward. The dog must see you as the most rewarding thing in it's life.

I personally think it is pointless trying to chase down a super fit dog - better to stop it just as it decides to charge off.

Best of luck.

Good idea about the book and a very good point about 'chasing down' the dog, I have never witnessed a man or woman catch up with a dog which is in full flow.

[dannyboy]

There is no way I can catch my 10 month old cocker!!

[wj939]

I guarantee you chase after the dog as soon as it bolts it hears you coming and stops, might need to keep going until he turns or what have you but the point is made, you get him before he comes back and take him back to where you started. Many trainers use this or an adaptation of this.

 

If you can't do that he was too far away in the first place before you started. You won't need to do it much before he understands.

 

There is no magic cure, each dog is different as is the success of each method, the book above by Pippa Matheson is good, but in my mind relies on the gambling effect too much. Over a period of time I also think the reward of game and game scent outweighs anything you can offer. I've found her suggestions more appropriate for a 'softer' dog.

[ShootingEgg]

Dan, big bird has hit the nail on head, when training let him off lead, when walking to and from or just on a walk have him on the lead. Get him 100% on the lead, and when I say 100% I mean that, and not what you think might be 100%. And also come along to a training session with me on a tuesday night and meet the chap who trains my nutter... I can safely say he will change the way your dpg behaves, i have seen it first hand with a lad cross cocker that did exactly what you describe.