Scully Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Oh My God. I'm out of this topic. I was waiting for the first reaction to Micks post. I'm out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royboy Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 I would say that all of those are illnesses. There are many people who are healthy but unable to reproduce. I think that sometimes people are just dealt a bad hand. It would be lovely to have all the resources and technology to give every person exactly what they want. Taking a realistic perspective the resources are strained and many people with illnesses often do not get the care they need. Therefore I believe that if you are unfortunate in that you can not have children, although very sad, money should be spent on giving treatment and care to people who have illnesses that are making them sick and causing pain in a physical sense. Still do not see any reason as to why someone who chooses to become a man then wishes to carry and birth a child. That quite clearly is something a woman does. Do you disagree ? Edit to add: I did not mention any of those other "people" ( I say "people" because you define them by their conditions) as not being allowed to have children. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djrwood Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Now this is a thread that can highlight the ignorance of some! If I was a gay man, why should I lose my right to be a father. The paternal instinct is unlikely to change just based on my sexual persuasion. Similarly a woman wanting to be a man or vice versa, shouldn't have to give up on there right to paternity. I would imagine if a sex change could actually form testes that produced sperm, many of these men wouldn't be freezing their eggs! Get a grip. Anyone who has the strength to survive having the wrong equipment for the way they feel and then feel strong enough about it to go through numerous operations to finally physically be the gender they feel, will probably make a damn good parent. As for the NHS, the amount spent on sex change operations is miniscule in terms of the total budget. The waste and inefficiencies in some areas would cover it ten fold! Edited July 31, 2016 by djrwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Now this is a thread that can highlight the ignorance of some! If I was a gay man, why should I lose my right to be a father. The paternal instinct is unlikely to change just based on my sexual persuasion. Similarly a woman wanting to be a man or vice versa, shouldn't have to give up on there right to paternity. I would imagine if a sex change could actually form testes that produced sperm, many of these men wouldn't be freezing their eggs! Get a grip. Anyone who has the strength to survive having the wrong equipment for the way they feel and then feel strong enough about it to go through numerous operations to finally physically be the gender they feel, will probably make a damn good parent. As for the NHS, the amount spent on sex change operations is miniscule in terms of the total budget. The waste and inefficiencies in some areas would cover it ten fold! I find it very strange that someone who is biologically able to have a child would willingly under go a procedure making them incapable of having children, to then go on to demand that the NHS pays for their IVF. I have never questioned suitability to be a parent personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignity Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 FUBAR ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djrwood Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 I find it very strange that someone who is biologically able to have a child would willingly under go a procedure making them incapable of having children, to then go on to demand that the NHS pays for their IVF. I have never questioned suitability to be a parent personally. I'm trying to understand your opinion but can't make sense of it. If a little girl is born and grows up not understanding why but is convinced she should be a boy, goes through puberty adolescence etc and is still convinced she is in the wrong body, at what point of time should she give up on ever being a parent? She hasn't chosen to feel the way she does so why be forced to chose if she can have kids or not. And if she can still carry a baby safely and naturally why shouldn't she? It's the paternal instinct that will be driving it, not that of either a woman or man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 I'm trying to understand your opinion but can't make sense of it. If a little girl is born and grows up not understanding why but is convinced she should be a boy, goes through puberty adolescence etc and is still convinced she is in the wrong body, at what point of time should she give up on ever being a parent? She hasn't chosen to feel the way she does so why be forced to chose if she can have kids or not. And if she can still carry a baby safely and naturally why shouldn't she? It's the paternal instinct that will be driving it, not that of either a woman or man. I think that someone who truly believes they are a man would not have maternal instincts and carry a baby like a woman does. As that is not something a man does. If you want to become a man whilst also retaining being a woman then are you a man, woman or hermaphrodite ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 there was a programme on tv a couple of years ago come dine with me i think,there was a sex change one on there changed from female to male and earnt its living as a female impersonator.had a lot of treatment via the nhs.now tell me where that is not a criminal waste of public money.no problem with a gay man becoming a father or gay woman becoming a mother but please dont try to rationalise a female turn man then wanting to give birth,that is just sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 there was a programme on tv a couple of years ago come dine with me i think,there was a sex change one on there changed from female to male and earnt its living as a female impersonator.had a lot of treatment via the nhs.now tell me where that is not a criminal waste of public money.no problem with a gay man becoming a father or gay woman becoming a mother but please dont try to rationalise a female turn man then wanting to give birth,that is just sick I have to agree with you there Mick. Absolute disgrace that this should be funded by the NHS. Cake and eat it comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Its all just part of a screwed up world. And screwed up people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Now this is a thread that can highlight the ignorance of some! If I was a gay man, why should I lose my right to be a father. The paternal instinct is unlikely to change just based on my sexual persuasion. Similarly a woman wanting to be a man or vice versa, shouldn't have to give up on there right to paternity. I would imagine if a sex change could actually form testes that produced sperm, many of these men wouldn't be freezing their eggs! Get a grip. Anyone who has the strength to survive having the wrong equipment for the way they feel and then feel strong enough about it to go through numerous operations to finally physically be the gender they feel, will probably make a damn good parent. As for the NHS, the amount spent on sex change operations is miniscule in terms of the total budget. The waste and inefficiencies in some areas would cover it ten fold! Quite simple, having children isn't a legal right, it's natures privilege, and to say otherwise just shows how selfish some folk are. To say it's a legal right is just the me me me mind set coming out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 please excuse my ignorance on this matter but . i assumed that when a woman was turned surgically into a man , that her bits would be sewn up and a prosthetic todger installed , or does the woman keep male and female bits and bobs ? . so when the woman is made into a man and then wants a baby , does she still have her lady parts or are they re opened ?. im just a little confused by the plumbing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Why are there so many more gay people than there were 40-50 years ago? Is society turning confused kids gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Why are there so many more gay people than there were 40-50 years ago? Is society turning confused kids gay? I doubt there are. Wasn't homosexuality still illegal 50 years ago? Even 40 years ago it wasn't as socially acceptable as it is now, so it wouldn't be as common as it seems now to hear of it. Nor was there worldwide social media with it's 24/7 news and views. Those at my school in the 70's kept it very quiet for fear of persecution. I think we mostly found it amusing rather than offensive. In our small market town of the same period I could possibly name 2 gay people, whereas today I know many; two of whom are friends. They were still gay back then, but not openly and somewhat subdued; now they're very happy. One of them is hilarious; a great bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Why are there so many more gay people than there were 40-50 years ago? Is society turning confused kids gay? Because even during he war times 50 years ago being gay was classed as an illness and forced medical treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I doubt there are. Wasn't homosexuality still illegal 50 years ago? Even 40 years ago it wasn't as socially acceptable as it is now, so it wouldn't be as common as it seems now to hear of it. Nor was there worldwide social media with it's 24/7 news and views. Those at my school in the 70's kept it very quiet for fear of persecution. I think we mostly found it amusing rather than offensive. In our small market town of the same period I could possibly name 2 gay people, whereas today I know many; two of whom are friends. They were still gay back then, but not openly and somewhat subdued; now they're very happy. One of them is hilarious; a great bloke. Don't think I know to any now, did know one but I'm sure he died of aids or something similar that they catch. He was ok to speak to, quite a sense of humour if I remember correctly (long time ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 something similar that they catch ? you do know Aids kills children and women too ? it's not a gay disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I doubt there are. Wasn't homosexuality still illegal 50 years ago? Even 40 years ago it wasn't as socially acceptable as it is now, so it wouldn't be as common as it seems now to hear of it. Nor was there worldwide social media with it's 24/7 news and views. Those at my school in the 70's kept it very quiet for fear of persecution. I think we mostly found it amusing rather than offensive. In our small market town of the same period I could possibly name 2 gay people, whereas today I know many; two of whom are friends. They were still gay back then, but not openly and somewhat subdued; now they're very happy. One of them is hilarious; a great bloke. To give you some idea of why there seems to-be more gay people and why I think some kids can become confused and pushed into thinking they are gay, they maybe slightly effeminate/masculine but at a young age it would not take much to confuse them. When I was 12 at secondary school I had a best mate, as most of us did, we would walk home from school with our arms over each others shoulder and think nothing of it, I had feelings for him that at that age I did not understand, his mom asked if I wanted to stay one night and we slept in the same bed (not his mom) again we thought nothing of it, he was a year in front of me and when he left school at 15 I can remember felling really sad and tearful, my mom picked up on this and asked me if anything was wrong at school, I told her no. Now I can tell you it was a mixed school and I was defiantly one for the girls and so was he, but if I was at school today my feeling would have been scrutinised and more than likely someone would have pulled me to one side for counselling and asked all sorts of questions like, "do you have sexual feelings towards him, if you do that's ok" "do you like him putting his arm around you" "there are lots of girls and boys that have these feelings for the same sex" "don't feel ashamed if you think you might be gay" At this age and younger your body and your head are confused, your feelings are running amok, now for an adult to put ideas in your head that you might be gay, "but its ok" will only make matters worse for these unsure young people, I have seen somewhere about children as young as 6 and 7 being given counselling for showing effeminate/masculine tendencies e.g. boys playing with dolls, dressing in girls cloths etc. That's why I think there are more gay people today than when I was a youngster back in the 60s, I am not saying that there are no genuine cases of course there are but it makes me wonder just how many have been tipped over the edge in today's society and are unhappy with them selves and still confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 To give you some idea of why there seems to-be more gay people and why I think some kids can become confused and pushed into thinking they are gay, they maybe slightly effeminate/masculine but at a young age it would not take much to confuse them. When I was 12 at secondary school I had a best mate, as most of us did, we would walk home from school with our arms over each others shoulder and think nothing of it, I had feelings for him that at that age I did not understand, his mom asked if I wanted to stay one night and we slept in the same bed (not his mom) again we thought nothing of it, he was a year in front of me and when he left school at 15 I can remember felling really sad and tearful, my mom picked up on this and asked me if anything was wrong at school, I told her no. Now I can tell you it was a mixed school and I was defiantly one for the girls and so was he, but if I was at school today my feeling would have been scrutinised and more than likely someone would have pulled me to one side for counselling and asked all sorts of questions like, "do you have sexual feelings towards him, if you do that's ok" "do you like him putting his arm around you" "there are lots of girls and boys that have these feelings for the same sex" "don't feel ashamed if you think you might be gay" At this age and younger your body and your head are confused, your feelings are running amok, now for an adult to put ideas in your head that you might be gay, "but its ok" will only make matters worse for these unsure young people, I have seen somewhere about children as young as 6 and 7 being given counselling for showing effeminate/masculine tendencies e.g. boys playing with dolls, dressing in girls cloths etc. That's why I think there are more gay people today than when I was a youngster back in the 60s, I am not saying that there are no genuine cases of course there are but it makes me wonder just how many have been tipped over the edge in today's society and are unhappy with them selves and still confused. What a load of rubbish! Kids being asked in school if they think about their friends in a sexual way ?! What world are you living in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 What a load of rubbish! Which part? Kids being asked in school if they think about their friends in a sexual way ?! Where did I say IN school? What world are you living in ? A world in my eyes that is worse than it was 40-50 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 To give you some idea of why there seems to-be more gay people and why I think some kids can become confused and pushed into thinking they are gay, they maybe slightly effeminate/masculine but at a young age it would not take much to confuse them. When I was 12 at secondary school I had a best mate, as most of us did, we would walk home from school with our arms over each others shoulder and think nothing of it, I had feelings for him that at that age I did not understand, his mom asked if I wanted to stay one night and we slept in the same bed (not his mom) again we thought nothing of it, he was a year in front of me and when he left school at 15 I can remember felling really sad and tearful, my mom picked up on this and asked me if anything was wrong at school, I told her no. Now I can tell you it was a mixed school and I was defiantly one for the girls and so was he, but if I was at school today my feeling would have been scrutinised and more than likely someone would have pulled me to one side for counselling and asked all sorts of questions like, "do you have sexual feelings towards him, if you do that's ok" "do you like him putting his arm around you" "there are lots of girls and boys that have these feelings for the same sex" "don't feel ashamed if you think you might be gay" At this age and younger your body and your head are confused, your feelings are running amok, now for an adult to put ideas in your head that you might be gay, "but its ok" will only make matters worse for these unsure young people, I have seen somewhere about children as young as 6 and 7 being given counselling for showing effeminate/masculine tendencies e.g. boys playing with dolls, dressing in girls cloths etc. That's why I think there are more gay people today than when I was a youngster back in the 60s, I am not saying that there are no genuine cases of course there are but it makes me wonder just how many have been tipped over the edge in today's society and are unhappy with them selves and still confused. Confused? I think perhaps they're not the only ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 New topic. Same old faces peddling the same old bigotry directed at yet another minority on PW. What a progressive bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Confused? I think perhaps they're not the only ones. Well some people are easily confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Well some people are easily confused.Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 To give you some idea of why there seems to-be more gay people and why I think some kids can become confused and pushed into thinking they are gay, they maybe slightly effeminate/masculine but at a young age it would not take much to confuse them. When I was 12 at secondary school I had a best mate, as most of us did, we would walk home from school with our arms over each others shoulder and think nothing of it, I had feelings for him that at that age I did not understand, his mom asked if I wanted to stay one night and we slept in the same bed (not his mom) again we thought nothing of it, he was a year in front of me and when he left school at 15 I can remember felling really sad and tearful, my mom picked up on this and asked me if anything was wrong at school, I told her no. Now I can tell you it was a mixed school and I was defiantly one for the girls and so was he, but if I was at school today my feeling would have been scrutinised and more than likely someone would have pulled me to one side for counselling and asked all sorts of questions like, "do you have sexual feelings towards him, if you do that's ok" "do you like him putting his arm around you" "there are lots of girls and boys that have these feelings for the same sex" "don't feel ashamed if you think you might be gay" At this age and younger your body and your head are confused, your feelings are running amok, now for an adult to put ideas in your head that you might be gay, "but its ok" will only make matters worse for these unsure young people, I have seen somewhere about children as young as 6 and 7 being given counselling for showing effeminate/masculine tendencies e.g. boys playing with dolls, dressing in girls cloths etc. That's why I think there are more gay people today than when I was a youngster back in the 60s, I am not saying that there are no genuine cases of course there are but it makes me wonder just how many have been tipped over the edge in today's society and are unhappy with them selves and still confused. i dont read this as being anti gay at all , i think its a very good insight(from your own personal experience) into the thoughts of youngsters at an age when theyre just starting to find their way in a very confusing world , children have feelings in exactly the same way as adults , but , as adults we (sometimes)have a greater understanding of them from past experience , as a youngster we dont have the past life experience to draw on , so at times things can be very confusing. im still not convinced that you could steer anyone into being gay though , anymore than you could steer them out of it. i still dont understand the mechanics of a female being turned into a male then back into a female though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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