Glenlivet Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 An article in the Times today about a gamekeeper who has been given a license by Natural England to shoot buzzards to protect pheasant poults. Naturally the RSPB are objecting to this being done for sporting purposes while Natural England say it's about protecting business. Don't see this sort of publicity does our sport much good! The collective's view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Unbelievable anyone would want to give this publicity - if there is any truth in the story very quickly you will have flack from a hundred different directions: Packham, RSPB, RSPCA, WWF, PETA, Animal Aid etc etc and only the shooting world will suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted August 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 RSPB spokesman 'what will be next? Red kites, peregrines, hen harriers?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 erm...Their are alot of buzzards but for me they are lovely birds and I would never shoot one even if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Wasn't this a one of case a little while back where the keeper very nearly lost his livelyhood and was at his wits end having tried all other means before this decision was finally made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Isn't this story at least a year old by now? I seem to recall reading about this quite some time ago, if it's the same case. I can't see the problem to be honest. The estate has gone via all the recommended legal routes and found them all lacking, so now has pursued the matter legally, ( rather than illegally ) a legal solution has been agreed upon, and still comes in for criticism.....from shooters! Is it me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Isn't this story at least a year old by now? I seem to recall reading about this quite some time ago, if it's the same case. I can't see the problem to be honest. The estate has gone via all the recommended legal routes and found them all lacking, so now has pursued the matter legally, ( rather than illegally ) a legal solution has been agreed upon, and still comes in for criticism.....from shooters! Is it me? I don't understand the issue either Scully. As you say, all other means have been attempted, and have failed. As such, NE have granted the licence applied for, with various restrictions, including the maximum number of birds to be shot, records and returns to be kept, etc. - not as if the keeper has been granted open season on them to fell them by the hundred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Isn't this story at least a year old by now? I seem to recall reading about this quite some time ago, if it's the same case. I can't see the problem to be honest. The estate has gone via all the recommended legal routes and found them all lacking, so now has pursued the matter legally, ( rather than illegally ) a legal solution has been agreed upon, and still comes in for criticism.....from shooters! Is it me? Didn't the NGO play there part in this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted August 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Didn't the NGO play there part in this?Yes they did. I don't have a problem with the facts of the case, if something is a pest and needs removing I'm ok with doing so. It's the perception by non shooters which worries me. At a time when all are desperately trying to get game as a mainstream food source is this sort of publicity helpful?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 What's the problem? shooting interests will always protect creatures they are specifically interested in preserving from predators, which is fine as long as it's done within the law!.........so how is it any different, that whilst the RSPB don't publicise it they lethally control, presumably within the law, predators they deem to be detrimental to the conservation status of any species they choose to preserve..................what qualifies them to be the sole arbiter as to which species can live or die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted August 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 What's the problem? shooting interests will always protect creatures they are specifically interested in preserving from predators, which is fine as long as it's done within the law!.........so how is it any different, that whilst the RSPB don't publicise it they lethally control, presumably within the law, predators they deem to be detrimental to the conservation status of any species they choose to preserve..................what qualifies them to be the sole arbiter as to which species can live or die?.....which point they made in the article, they lethally control for conservation purposes but object to control of protected species for sporting purposes. I'll try and make clear for those hard of understanding, I personally don't have a problem with what is being proposed/done. But the perception by the non shooting public of articles in mainstream newspapers entitled 'Buzzards will be killed to protect game shooting' are not helpful to the cause!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Didn't the NGO play there part in this? If it's the same case, then yes, I think so. It was some time ago now. I don't really care about the general publics perception of this as nothing we do will ever placate those who oppose it. It's as simple as that. Most of those opposed to what we do don't want to see our side of the story; they don't care how much money it generates ( they object to wealth seemingly ) nor how many jobs it creates, nor care about the moors either and what they would be if they weren't keepered for shooting. All they see is wealthy, upper class toffs killing for pleasure; they don't want to see it from any other angle, and it isn't open to clarification, reason or negotiation. It's very similar to asking those vegans opposed to the killing of lambs etc what they think would happen to all the sheep if we didn't eat lamb. They have no answer, or if they do it runs along the lines of 'well, they'll all live in peace, enjoying themselves'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) Ive had the opperunity too shoot under EN licence and it was a waste of time.The keeper in question (or more the estate mamager) would of had to produce documentation with recorded financial loss due to raptors.Then only when every other method of scaring the raptors had been exgausted would EN grant licence with permission to cull and even then it would be numbered very few. For example my local fishery has a dozen Herons dropping in to roost and the damage to Carp,Tench and other species ran into Hundreds.Everything was photo documented and estimated losses recorded We tried walking round scaring them,we tried hangi g old cd's in the trees and even resorted to rope bangers.But they just came in later(pitch black).EN paid a visit and granted permission to shoot 2.You could have i think 7 guns on the permit & if i remember back the cull had to take place between end of Sept and begining of Jan.I backed out of it however as felt uncomfortable about it.However 2 got shot and the damage continued.The anount of hassle thats incured trying to obtain licence is long winded and time consuming & this is probably why keepers allegedly in the past have taken the illigal option.It a too longwinded process and the cull numbers are not making any impact at all. Wasnt there an article cerculating a few years back where some farmer in the Scottsh boarders had about 70,000 geese dropping in and they said he could shoot a couple of dozen. Edited August 6, 2016 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 erm...Their are alot of buzzards but for me they are lovely birds and I would never shoot one even if I could. I bet you would change your mind if they were eating your wage packet and you couldn't feed your wife and children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) To put some perspective on it, according to BTO figures: Comorants 9,000 licenses can be obtained to kill them Canada goose 62,000 pairs on general license Buzzard 51,000 to 77,900 pairs (ie more than likely more abundant than canada goose), only just had a single license issued for control Comorant = ugly = no one cares Canada Goose = noisey and makes a mess in the park = no one cares Buzzard = 'magestic raptor' = everyone cares Edited August 6, 2016 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 To put some perspective on it, according to BTO figures: Comorants 9,000 licenses can be obtained to kill them Canada goose 62,000 pairs on general license Buzzard 51,000 to 77,900 pairs (ie more than likely more abundant than canada goose), only just had a single license issued for control Comorant = ugly = no one cares Canada Goose = noisey and makes a mess in the park = no one cares Buzzard = 'magestic raptor' = everyone cares Good point. I bet you would change your mind if they were eating your wage packet and you couldn't feed your wife and children. As is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 To put some perspective on it, according to BTO figures: Comorants 9,000 licenses can be obtained to kill them Canada goose 62,000 pairs on general license Buzzard 51,000 to 77,900 pairs (ie more than likely more abundant than canada goose), only just had a single license issued for control Very interesting figures. Where I live their numbers are so high that starvation due to a lack of prey must be a realistic scenario. They have lifted hens out of my garden. When working on the garage roof a few years ago we counted 6 in the air at the same time. That's a lot of carrion (if you believe the rspb.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 It's mibee time our org's start to fight back against this constant proganda campagin from anti's and alleged 'conservationists'. I sure now with all these web cams and stealth cams people/keepers have footage of buzzards (or badgers) taking birds in and around pens. They're is already photos/footage of buzzards taking osprey chicks of nest and that really rare bird (phanphelope?? or something starting with a P) a few yeas ago in front of the twitchers. I also bet the rspb has a lot of footage of nest predation by all sorts but scared to release it The only problem u have is geting it out there for the general public to see, ideally countryfile would show it but no chance I honestly think the general public are not that daft all the data/surveys/evidence point to BoP's or predators in general at highest numbers ever, while most of ur prey species are in terminal drastic decline, it dosen't take a rocket scientist to work it out (and its not all to do with the nasty farmers either) I personally don't see the difference if an animal/bird is a pest and in pest numbers there really is no problem with shooting a few problem birds (as long as u have tried other methods to deter them) I think (and may be wrong) but the 1st licence a few years ago was to destroy some buzzard nests near to pheasant pens and not actually killing any and i think the NGO court case/apeal was about the unfair and baised way the licences are handed out (ie none for BoP no matter how many boxes u ticked) this could be the 1st grant allowing to actually kill the buzzards. Obviously area dependent but in many areas buzzards are really over populated and when u add in the red kites which also only eat carrion (and to be fair they are far more restricted to carrion) but still scare and stress the hell out of birds, not many pheasant poults can tell the difference between a buzzard or red kite as it flies over head. In my local area always had good numbers and can think of a few places in spring/autumn to see big numbers playing on thermals i've counted 14-15's quite a few times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 To put some perspective on it, according to BTO figures: Comorants 9,000 licenses can be obtained to kill them Canada goose 62,000 pairs on general license Buzzard 51,000 to 77,900 pairs (ie more than likely more abundant than canada goose), only just had a single license issued for control Comorant = ugly = no one cares Canada Goose = noisey and makes a mess in the park = no one cares Buzzard = 'magestic raptor' = everyone cares Excellent post. Start shooting rats and everyone tells you (inc. anti's) what a grand job you're doing and what a good boy you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigeon jim Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 I work on a farm here in Fife and while ploughing can have 30 buzzards at one time after the worms. Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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