Cumbrian Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 The background to this question is my search for a fairly light, beautifully handling gun. I have probably tried the patience of PW members already in this matter, so I ask their further indulgence. In my quest I have turned my attention to Guerini 20 gauges. In their early days, Guerinis attracted a fair degree of criticism, justifiable or not, for wearing badly and becoming prematurely loose in the action. Was this a correct assessment? In other words, some years on, and presumably with a lot more experience of their long term qualities available, have they worn as well as Brownings or Berettas with comparable use? Obviously any gun will wear loose after scores or hundreds of thousands of rounds through it, so one must not expect the impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I will be interested in the outcome of this. I owned a Guerini and thought it was very well made - I regret selling it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Well mine was built in 2011 so it still has 5 years warranty left. I bought it used 20 months ago in about 99% condition with unknown mileage and I've since put about 8K rounds through it. Mechanically it's still smooth and tight, there's no sloppiness or rattling and it hasn't changed perceptibly during the time I've had it. Nothing has failed and nothing has given any cause for concern since I bought it. One aspect that I've noticed is that it's much closer on the face than any other guns I've owned so the ejector heads, plungers and breech faces stay clean almost indefinitely. As I understand it, if it ever does get sloppy or loose on opening, AngloItalian will fit an oversize spacer in the forend to make it tight again which is exactly what Beretta does on the DT-10s when they get loose. The build quality on CGs is excellent. Barrels, bores, chokes, action, woodwork and engraving are all built, fitted and finished - in my opinion - to a higher standard than any other current mid range gun that I've handled. They appear to have no weaknesses; the sporters are well balanced between the hands, the triggers are superb and I've never heard of any barrel regulation problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'm also very interested in this. I was at the Mid Wales Shooting center earlier today, and played with a few guns, including a guerini.... THAT gun had a 'rattling' frontend... basically, gun closed, you could move the wood of the forehead a bit... I have to say that did put me off pretty seriously! They also have a DT10 that looked a lot tighter, I'm going to go out and shoot it tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 mines an early select a choke model summit shorter from 06.....tight as the day it left the factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I went to one of the better gun schools (that I won't name) around the M25 around 3 years ago and used a CG Maxum that I kinda fell in love with - Was invited back again at the start of this year and thought I'll shoot with the same gun and finally make my mind up. When I arrived, I got handed a Silver Pigeon and asked for the Maxum to be told that they'd sent them all back as they were spending longer in the gunsmiths than they were on the rack. As the guy was finishing the story another instructor came in and catching only the tail end of the story, where we were talking about them breaking, just said "Guerinis?" Somewhat deflated, I had a look in their shop later and the chap in the gun section reiterated the same story when I asked if they had any in stock. When I questioned why, they said the guns look good and feel good, but at the price you're paying something has to give and it seems to be the internal mechanics (or the quality of them). Somewhat gutted as I'd almost set my heart on one - If anyone wants to change my mind, please try!! Edited August 12, 2016 by Fatcatsplat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Guess we`ll know the answer in 50 years time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I went to one of the better gun schools (that I won't name) around the M25 around 3 years ago and used a CG Maxum that I kinda fell in love with - Was invited back again at the start of this year and thought I'll shoot with the same gun and finally make my mind up. When I arrived, I got handed a Silver Pigeon and asked for the Maxum to be told that they'd sent them all back as they were spending longer in the gunsmiths than they were on the rack. As the guy was finishing the story another instructor came in and catching only the tail end of the story, where we were talking about them breaking, just said "Guerinis?" Somewhat deflated, I had a look in their shop later and the chap in the gun section reiterated the same story when I asked if they had any in stock. When I questioned why, they said the guns look good and feel good, but at the price you're paying something has to give and it seems to be the internal mechanics (or the quality of them). Somewhat gutted as I'd almost set my heart on one - If anyone wants to change my mind, please try!! It makes no odds to me either way as I don't worship makes but dealers have been known to talk poo about just about everything, I personally haven't heard any real negative stories about CG although admittedly I think the early ones did slack up quick. Unless the OP wants to shoot 3k shells per week through his 20 bore CG I doubt he'd notice anything adverse whether he buys a new or lightly used one. They're mid priced guns and they're good enough, if you want a tank you need to buy a DT11 or K80. Edited August 12, 2016 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everycal Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 There's a lovely one for sale in the private sales section looking for a new home. Just serviced and in awesome condition!!! . I love it but with a baby on the way it's time to thin out a little. Quite hoping it doesn't sell before 5th September so I can use it on the grouse one last time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I'm also very interested in this. I was at the Mid Wales Shooting center earlier today, and played with a few guns, including a guerini.... THAT gun had a 'rattling' frontend... basically, gun closed, you could move the wood of the forehead a bit... I have to say that did put me off pretty seriously! The forend latch is adjustable by screwing the release rod in or out. It's locked in position by a grub screw. CG has several forend options and it's possible that it had been swapped and not adjusted properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Had slow timing on bottom ejector on mine, no other problems though. Sold it a couple of years back. Seemed well made and well finished to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I went to one of the better gun schools (that I won't name) around the M25 around 3 years ago and used a CG Maxum that I kinda fell in love with - Was invited back again at the start of this year and thought I'll shoot with the same gun and finally make my mind up. When I arrived, I got handed a Silver Pigeon and asked for the Maxum to be told that they'd sent them all back as they were spending longer in the gunsmiths than they were on the rack. As the guy was finishing the story another instructor came in and catching only the tail end of the story, where we were talking about them breaking, just said "Guerinis?" Somewhat deflated, I had a look in their shop later and the chap in the gun section reiterated the same story when I asked if they had any in stock. When I questioned why, they said the guns look good and feel good, but at the price you're paying something has to give and it seems to be the internal mechanics (or the quality of them). Somewhat gutted as I'd almost set my heart on one - If anyone wants to change my mind, please try!! As I said in my 1st post, they don't seem to have any weaknesses so this is surprising. One of the largest shooting schools in the US, Orvis, has used CGs for years and they run them up to very high mileages. They even sell CGs with their in house branding. If you look on ShotgunWorld there are 2 sub forums for CG. Search as long as you like but you won't find many threads about problems or faults. Haters are going to hate and no one can fix that, but I spend most Sundays reffing at registered ESP shoots and I see plenty of high mileage CGs around. I've asked numerous competitors about their choice and I can't recall anyone complaining about problems. Most are very happy and almost 100% recommended them when I was looking - indeed for a few weeks I was having CGs handed to me to have a go with at almost every shoot. Generally people have no plans to move on unless to another CG. I'd be interested to know what breakdowns your shooting experienced and whether they returned them under warranty or attempted to fix them in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 It would certainly be interesting to know precisely what goes wrong, if anything. The only specific adverse comment I have found came from a gunsmith on shootinguk.co.uk, who said that having the springs for the ejectors immediately behind the ejector rods was not so good an arrangement as having the springs in the fore end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyh Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I went to one of the better gun schools (that I won't name) around the M25 around 3 years ago and used a CG Maxum that I kinda fell in love with - Was invited back again at the start of this year and thought I'll shoot with the same gun and finally make my mind up. When I arrived, I got handed a Silver Pigeon and asked for the Maxum to be told that they'd sent them all back as they were spending longer in the gunsmiths than they were on the rack. As the guy was finishing the story another instructor came in and catching only the tail end of the story, where we were talking about them breaking, just said "Guerinis?" Interesting, as the very well known shooting school near me has dropped their silver pigeons in favour of b725's.. Ironically i've sold my b725 and upped to a CG Maxum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I have had my CG SUMMIT about 2yrs now it was 2yrs old when I bought it. Lovely gun I will not be changing it in the near future good solid gun well balanced . I've probably put 5/6000 carts thro it I don't know how many before me and its never missed a beat.missed plenty of clays tho that nothing to do with gun.only small thing the forend got a little bit of play in your turned out to be a grub screw had loosened I tightened up and has not moved since Good luck with your choice thumbs up form me .shoot with a man that had the ASCENT like me sold it for a blazer with the mid rib seen him last week and was shooting the ASCENT again and said it was a better gun to shoot.blazer was better engineered but not the same feel and the blazer was over twice the price Edited August 12, 2016 by postie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 It would certainly be interesting to know precisely what goes wrong, if anything. The only specific adverse comment I have found came from a gunsmith on shootinguk.co.uk, who said that having the springs for the ejectors immediately behind the ejector rods was not so good an arrangement as having the springs in the fore end. Browning/Miroku lover no doubt. Beretta, Perazzi and about 6 million other makers seem very happy with breech mounted captive springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 I Have had 2 CG both performed faultlessly. The one i have now is the Forum model, not a cheap gun by any means and i expect nothing less than perfect working from it. I had a EELL before new and i had nothing but trouble with it including a loose forend . I think the point is you can get a bad gun or batch of guns from any maker. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted August 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Browning/Miroku lover no doubt. Beretta, Perazzi and about 6 million other makers seem very happy with breech mounted captive springs. Me or the gunsmith?! So far as I am concerned you are prescient: I do have two Browning 325s, and a Winchester 5500, which has the same ejector springs arrangement of course, though I can't say that it was this feature that led me to buy any of them in the first place. I can't speak for the gunsmith but I take your point about the tested merits of the other system and I'd be more concerned about wear around the trunnions, for example, if that happened to be a problem. I can't see the Browning style under-bite on a Guerini giving difficulties, unless it were badly made, which seems very unlikely. I must say that overall I wouldn't expect the Guerini to give trouble, and if it did, there's a long and apparently rather good guarantee with the gun. Moreover, I don't shoot more than 3000 rounds a year (so Hamster was spot on with his numbers). I notice, however, that Guerini have followed others in going in for appreciable back boring. As a fibre wads-only user, that does give me pause for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 I notice, however, that Guerini have followed others in going in for appreciable back boring. As a fibre wads-only user, that does give me pause for thought. Could you explain that bit please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Back bored barrels are larger than normal. Fibre wads don't expand enough to provide a perfect seal. Plastic wads do. Hence - back bored barrels work better with plastic wads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyh Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Back boring explained http://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/back-boring.html Obvs we know better than Browning CG et al? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I used a 101 waterfowl alongside a back bored Invictus on a few driven days last season with fibre wads .... any difference? None at all ... and these were high birds where it would have been clear. So ... I get the theory, but in practice I don't buy it. I believe the wads compress and form a decent seal. Also used fibre wads on clays with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I used a 101 waterfowl alongside a back bored Invictus on a few driven days last season with fibre wads .... any difference? None at all ... and these were high birds where it would have been clear. So ... I get the theory, but in practice I don't buy it. I believe the wads compress and form a decent seal. Also used fibre wads on clays with no problems. According to Teague's info a 101 is 0.735in bore which could surely be considered back-bored in modern terms. Maybe why you found no difference. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 Every day is a school day!! The op was concerned about using fibre wads in back bored guns .... my experience is that it isn't anything to worry about .... if my old winnie is over bored too, then that's more evidence that it isn't an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSoanes Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have a CG Maxum 20g, had it for 2.5 years now and it's never played up, it's had plenty of use game and pigeon shooting. Why pay 5k plus for a EELL when you can have a side plated CG which is built better and handles better IMO for just over 3k. I also have Browning 725 black edition, which compared to the CG for build quality, dosnt come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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