Jason_ox Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 It has been a very good read this post. I hope to one day inherit my late grandfathers Westley Richards, it may not be worth much but to know the history, and be able to use it on our shoot once a season to keep tradition is what I'm looking forward to most! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Just to close the topic buze - can you show a picture of the Wibbly and Snot badge that we have been debating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Bruno, I'm out in the sticks at the minute, but will do. We shoot the Walker yesterday, and Mrs did break clays with it, in fact, very nice balls of dust! Chaps at Mid Wales were very impressed with the little gun, and its bores! Someone mentioned is unlikely to be a Scott, as it has a very low serial number as well as an unusual action for one. Serial is #278 I think. He was mentioning Midland Gun Company... Will post pics when I get access to a real computer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanWalker Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Would agree with Midland or possibly Osborne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) Now that's a confusing answer - if it has a W&S badge how can someone who has seen it think that it's a Midland Gun Co? Unless, of course, that it is NOT a W&S as some have mentioned Edited August 26, 2016 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 i have a boxlock identical in nearly every respect except its marked thomas wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 i have a boxlock identical in nearly every respect except its marked thomas wild. Do you think it's the brand, or was it made for a Thomas Wild? Any chance of having pics, to compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Here is the pic of the flat of the barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Id take it to a dealer and see what they say. Doesn't look like a W&S action to me. Think more a Belgian gun retailed by some gunsmith over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Dougall - so NO W&S badge as I suspected - oops!! The cross pin is a giveaway. Edited August 28, 2016 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Dougall - so NO W&S badge as I suspected - oops!! The cross pin is a giveaway. I re-read you Bruno, seems you read that the guy at the shot claimign it was a Scott has seen a badge -- he didn't -- in fact he very likely was wrong from the data that'd been coming since; @demonwolf Thomas Wild seems to come up wiht /very/ similar guns on google... In fact I haven't seen a single Scott with a PoW, while the very first Thomas Wild I found on gg had one... Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 And... here's the gun in action. She also said thank you to all the 'internet nerds' who came up with all the information ;-) She wore extra padding, as it's a bit of a lively gun compared to her usual one. She did pretty well with the gun tho, and later removed the extra padding, as it messes a but with the fit. Might have mentioned that, but the guys at the shooting ground were very impressed with the remaining file marks on the barrels, as it's just been out of the adjusment bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Doesn't look like a W&S action to me. Think more a Belgian gun retailed by some gunsmith over here.But those are Birmingham proof marks. Wouldn't a Belgian-made gun be expected to have Belgian proof marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Buze - "the Walker seems to him to be a Scott 700 or so ,"badged as such" - I presumed that this meant you had found a W&S mark, but I was 99.9% sure that no such mark was present which is why I requested a photo. I have stated right from the start that I do not believe that W&S ever got near this gun but after the oops remark from one member I felt the need to persevere. Internet nerd? I restore English SxS's as a hobby and see quite a few at auctions as well as at my local Gunsmith who buys and restores many in a year - but if that means nerd then so be it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted August 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Heh Bruno, I'm a nerd too, in many other topics, I wear it as a badge of honor, as I'm sure you do :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IEH Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) I re-read you Bruno, seems you read that the guy at the shot claimign it was a Scott has seen a badge -- he didn't -- in fact he very likely was wrong from the data that'd been coming since; @demonwolf Thomas Wild seems to come up wiht /very/ similar guns on google... In fact I haven't seen a single Scott with a PoW, while the very first Thomas Wild I found on gg had one... Interesting! I've never seen a Webley 700 with a crossbolt either. Very nice gun though. Edited August 29, 2016 by IEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Word of caution buze - keep it in the back of your mind that she has 2 1/2" chambers - easiest thing in the world at a clay shoot to forget if someone fancies a go with it and they slip a couple of 70mm shells in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 The Thomas wild i have is so very similar in every way in my minds eye - i've just stripped the action down but ill put the barrels on it and take some pictures for you to compare if you want, i believe they made their own guns but i'm not an expert on Wild - They were in brimingham at whittall street - and have had several addresses in the Birmingham gun quarter they were a very well established business. Cracking gun and worth hanging on to for ever - keep it well looked after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Now, something interesting -- I got handed an old inventory of the old man's things, and that gun is listed as: "Twelve bore double barrel hammerless sporting gun by Wicks and Lee, 1928, No. L278, box lock (E.Walker) in case with accessories" it was valuated at £1200. No mention of the list date, but that seems to be complicating matters a bit; the list is possibly from the mid 80's, and the someone who wrote THAT must have picked that name/date from somewhere -- but google doesn't have a single reference to "Wicks and Lee"... But that date seems quite adequate for such a low serial number for Thomas Wild, from what I've read of their production... Agreed that it looks identical to a Thomas Wild in pretty much all the pictures I've studied, but that Wicks and Lee name is strange! Anyway, it's great to play detective like that :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) Now, something interesting -- I got handed an old inventory of the old man's things, and that gun is listed as: "Twelve bore double barrel hammerless sporting gun by Wicks and Lee, 1928, No. L278, box lock (E.Walker) in case with accessories" it was valuated at £1200. No mention of the list date, but that seems to be complicating matters a bit; the list is possibly from the mid 80's, and the someone who wrote THAT must have picked that name/date from somewhere -- but google doesn't have a single reference to "Wicks and Lee"... But that date seems quite adequate for such a low serial number for Thomas Wild, from what I've read of their production... Agreed that it looks identical to a Thomas Wild in pretty much all the pictures I've studied, but that Wicks and Lee name is strange! Anyway, it's great to play detective like that :-) Wicks & Lee 26 Weaman Street (back of), Birmingham 1926-30 per my Nigel Brown - barrel makers Edited September 5, 2016 by kevin55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Amazing @kevin55 -- that definitely put a pretty precise date on the gun, a lot earlier than anticipated, the guy who made the list must have found a mark on the barrels somewhere that I haven't found yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Word of caution buze - keep it in the back of your mind that she has 2 1/2" chambers - easiest thing in the world at a clay shoot to forget if someone fancies a go with it and they slip a couple of 70mm shells in. you might just want to make things really clear. 2 1/2" Chambers (65mm if I am correct) 70mm Cartridges My comment is not a criticism just a word of warning/ clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) you might just want to make things really clear. 2 1/2" Chambers (65mm if I am correct) 70mm Cartridges My comment is not a criticism just a word of warning/ clarity Actually that wasn't super clear -- the 63mm chamber seems to mean I can't shoot cartridges that are longer than 63mm-5mm since the cartridge 'opens'. Seems 21g and 24g cartridges are perfectly fine (my HV 24g fiber are 52mm when closed). But then again my SuperFast 27g also appear to fit at 56mm, closed. So, am I right on the maximum size of 58mm? I referred to the "Shotgunning" book that mentions these sizes (abeit, in old money imperial) Edited September 5, 2016 by buze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 65mm is the fired cartridge length Buze 2 1/2" can be 65 or 67mm but for the oldest guns (I'm told) 67mm may be too long as the forcing cones are too abrupt Someone came to a shooting ground I was at with an old 2 1/2" gun and was given 67mm cartridges to shoot - it jammed on the first shot K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Ah, well I was not planning to shoot 27/28g cartridges with these anyway, they don't deserve the treatment after all these years! 24g is largely adequate for anything I'm likely to shoot at. When you say 'jam' you mean, 'explode'? I'm just asking to know how paranoid I have to be if I let anyone approach these guns. And secondary (very likely stupid) question -- game loads are usually a LOT bigger than 28g from what I understand, therefore I assumed the cartridges would be longer, do does that mean these guns can't be used for game, or would it be OK to shoot 24g at a pheasant? Feel free to snigger at the newbie, I am one ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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