Wasabi Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So...I went and bought my cartridges for the season and thought I'd treat myself to some black gold 32 gram no.5. Anyway I thought I'd pattern a few and find they are a 4 shot. Why do they do this? I want 5 shot because that suits the chokes I use. Has anyone used these before? Did you have to up your choke to make up for the continental shot size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So...I went and bought my cartridges for the season and thought I'd treat myself to some black gold 32 gram no.5. Anyway I thought I'd pattern a few and find they are a 4 shot. Why do they do this? I want 5 shot because that suits the chokes I use. Has anyone used these before? Did you have to up your choke to make up for the continental shot size? European shot size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMoody3 Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 I used them end of last season and got on really well with them. Never changed the chokes in the gun I use most so couldn't comment on it, but I was putting them through quarter and half and bringing down some screamers (for me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So...I went and bought my cartridges for the season and thought I'd treat myself to some black gold 32 gram no.5. Anyway I thought I'd pattern a few and find they are a 4 shot. Why do they do this? I want 5 shot because that suits the chokes I use. Has anyone used these before? Did you have to up your choke to make up for the continental shot size? Are you saying that you opened a couple up to check the shot size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi Posted October 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Yeah I opened two up to get a count before pattern testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 If they state #5 shot and or show the size in mm as 2.8mm and you can show they are number 4 (uk around 3mm) then i would take them back and ask for a refund. Game bore on their web site show they make their own shot so their is no reason why they should not be English number five shot at 2.8mm. 32gm in 4 is not ideal I would be wanting 36gm in 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartward Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 On their website they state #5 shot as 3mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 On their website they state #5 shot as 3mm Thanks, then they are not using English shot sizes can only guess they export a lot and are more concerned about that market than they are the uk. Confirms to me how careful you need to be when buying cartridges and why making your own is the only reliable way of knowing what you are shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 When manufacturers are consistent in their application of English or Continental shot sizes (e.g. Hull are English, RC Continental) ... it's easy ... Gamebore and Fiocchi now I believe are muddying the water by having some ranges in English sizes, and some in Continental. If it's important to you ... look at the size in mm to make sure you're getting what you want ... For me ... 2.7mm for Fenland game ... and 3mm in the Valleys ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Gamebore has always used continental shot sizes for there black gold range. The same as hull use the same continental sizes for there high pheasant range. Gamebore has has always been very clear on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 When manufacturers are consistent in their application of English or Continental shot sizes (e.g. Hull are English, RC Continental) ... it's easy ... Gamebore and Fiocchi now I believe are muddying the water by having some ranges in English sizes, and some in Continental. If it's important to you ... look at the size in mm to make sure you're getting what you want ... For me ... 2.7mm for Fenland game ... and 3mm in the Valleys ... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Gamebore has always used continental shot sizes for there black gold range. The same as hull use the same continental sizes for there high pheasant range. Gamebore has has always been very clear on this. Ok thanks I buy so few actual cartridges these days, I am behind times and clearly as the topic shows it is buyer beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Gamebore has always used continental shot sizes for there black gold range. The same as hull use the same continental sizes for there high pheasant range. Gamebore has has always been very clear on this. http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/highpheas.htm Perhaps not as clear as you think ... these look like English sizes to me I agree for those who are interested (like us) relatively easy to work out, it's on their website etc ... ... but for the chap who goes into a shop and picks some off the shelf ... not quite so clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/highpheas.htm Perhaps not as clear as you think ... these look like English sizes to me I agree for those who are interested (like us) relatively easy to work out, it's on their website etc ... ... but for the chap who goes into a shop and picks some off the shelf ... not quite so clear. I think Stevo is correct. Looking at the link above, for game cart's from 6s up they're over size and 7s down, under. For the class of cartridge that the OP refers to, their performance table is classed as "Top Secret" and the pellets/oz table is omitted. As said, buyer beware. As long as it's only a minute percentage of shooters who actually do a pattern check with the necessary pellet count obtained, very few will be any the wiser. Edited October 14, 2016 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) I think Stevo is correct. Looking at the link above, for game cart's from 6s up they're over size and 7s down, under. For the class of cartridge that the OP refers to, their performance table is classed as "Top Secret" and the pellets/oz table is omitted. As said, buyer beware. As long as it's only a minute percentage of shooters who actually do a pattern check with the necessary pellet count obtained, very few will be any the wiser. it's the HIGH PHEASANT EXTREME I'm on about. Edited October 14, 2016 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 it's the HIGH PHEASANT EXTREME I'm on about. So am i, wouldn't these be considered as the same class of cartridge (ie, use) as the OP's Gamebore offering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 it's the HIGH PHEASANT EXTREME I'm on about. They use the same pellet size table on both the HP and HP Extreme pages ... it very clearly states No. 5 = 2.8mm .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 They use the same tables throughout their range. If you go to High Pheasant, you'll find that there are 160 pellets of their 4s to 32g which are given as 3.1mm. If we convert that into English ('imperial' will just confuse us even more) we get 142 to the oz. Give or take 2 pellets, this equates to our 3s at 0.1276" or, converted back 3.24mm. With their given pellet count, the same but to a lesser degree, applies to their 5s which are in fact 4 &1/2s at a tad under 2.9mm. This is not a criticism as such, after all if you're looking at tall birds you want some poke provided you have the pellet count/choke to suit. At the other end of the scale, for smaller targets where you need the shot count then similarly, slightly undersize 7s can be advantageous. It's just a shame that they can't - or won't - tell it as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Later in the season I will be buying 20g - 250 x 28g 5`s fibre and 250 x 6`s fibre, either Gambore Pure gold or Hull HPE but will expect the 5`s to = 2.8mm and the 6`s to = 2.6mm. ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) It's just a shame that they can't - or won't - tell it as it is. Exactly because if you know the true shot size you may then decide to maintain the pattern that you need 34 or 36 or more grams of shot. Edited October 14, 2016 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 So...I went and bought my cartridges for the season and thought I'd treat myself to some black gold 32 gram no.5. Anyway I thought I'd pattern a few and find they are a 4 shot. Why do they do this? I want 5 shot because that suits the chokes I use. Has anyone used these before? Did you have to up your choke to make up for the continental shot size? How do they pattern in your chokes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi Posted October 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Nice and evenly. Just a bit thin due to the lower pellet count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromwell7 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 I have done the same thing on the recommendation from the shop owner that they are an English 5, Hopefully he will refund/exchange me for the correct cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Well theory is one thing and reality is another. I fired 50 of the above cartridges at clays to settle my mind! A 45 yard driven bird was being obliterated through 1/4 choke. Half choke was smoking closer birds. Confidence sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 fear not sir they work horribly well on good pheasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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