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I don't think Hamilton covered himself in glory with what he did. Sure, he had the right, and it was a legitimate tactic but its going to be remembered for a very long time.

 

Its going to be his millstone in years to come

Edited by Vince Green
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I don't think Hamilton covered himself in glory with what he did. Sure, he had the right, and it was a legitimate tactic but its going to be remembered for a very long time.

 

Its going to be his millstone in years to come

 

What should he have done?

 

Just set off in to the distance with Rosberg following him and only needing to finish the race to take the World Championship.

 

I think whatever Lewis did would be seen as wrong by many, he did enough to get the race win but there was very little he could do to stop Rosberg

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Not strictly true,

 

It is waved at cars that are being lapped,

 

If you pit for tyres and come out behind a "slower" car and it's for position then you have to actually overtake it,

 

If you come across a car you are about to lap then they have to let you pass,

 

Hamilton had the right to slow everyone down without having blue flags waved at him

 

:shaun:Thanks for explaining Shaun, Your last sentence is why i dont follow, can we say racing anymore, its to tactical for me. Each to there own and may they continue to enjoy. :good:

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Lewis is only responsible for one (his) car and had no choice but to try what he did as there was no other conceivable option, he used his racing brain to the full which is what Merc pay him for ultimately and they had already won both championships anyway. I can't imagine any other racing driver doing anything different under the same circumstances, in the end though all it really achieved was to showcase even more the brilliance of Rosberg under unimaginable pressure.

 

There is no such thing as a moral victor trophy and the incident will not harm Hamilton any more than it harmed Schumacker when he ran Damon off the road to take the championship.

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Hamiltons season started to fail early with some poor starts, impatience and forgetting how to drive a formula car at the European Grand Prix, whilst being being paid £21 million a year to do so. No, it seemed that having his dogs sperm frozen, his singing and hip hop career, fashion shoots, ex girlfriend, new tattoo collection and leather baseball cap were far more important than actually concentrating on the job he gets paid and wants to be famous for.

Silly, silly boy.

Well done Nico Rosberg. (Motor racing driver).

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I think the only thing that really peeved Mercedes was the fact all they wanted was the 1-2, after winning the manufacturers title they aren't really bothered who wins the drivers title as it was going to be a Merc driver,

 

Hamilton put that at risk by backing Rosberg up and trying to get at 2 drivers between them.

 

Now when Paddy Lowe ordered Hamilton to speed up so they got the 1-2 he got this response, "I'm not bothered, it's only 1 race" (or words to that effect) Rightly or wrongly getting that order he then decided he was going to ignore his bosses and do it his way, not for the first time I might add,

 

Now if I'm Mr Mercedes and therefore paying his wages I wouldn't be happy, after the first time he ignored my orders it would have been right! One more time and you're out, it's my team and I decide who does what. (Eddie Jordan said as much after the first time)

 

Now with at the moment the Mercedes being the top team do you really think Hamilton would have ignored it this time around and risked losing his seat?

 

One of the many other things this season that has irked me about Hamilton was the whole swapping of mechanics thing, again a decision that has nothing to do with him, it's a team decision, all season he has whinged about that, to the point of saying the truth will come out in a book,

 

Now if you have been one of his new mechanics this season what he has basically been saying is that you aren't as good as the other side of the garage, not exactly endearing himself to them, the conspiracy theorists might say that's why he has had more breakdowns ;)

 

He never mentions Rosbergs breakdowns in 2014 which you could say cost Rosberg the title,

 

Over the seasons they have raced together at Mercedes they have actually suffered the same amount of mechanical breakdowns......

 

Sorry but I just don't care for Hamilton, which I'm sure he lies awake at night thinking about :)

 

Couple of other facts I like to bring up regarding the Button/Hamilton pairing, over the 3 years at McLaren Button outscored Hamilton on total points, Button was also the first team mate to finish higher than Hamilton, Rosberg is now the second,

 

At least we got to see Button racing in a rubbish car so we could see his emerging talent (admittedly not the fastest qualifier) we have never seen Hamilton in a truly awful car to see what he can do,

 

And breathe :)

 

:shaun:

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I would sack him for deciding not to obey the teams instructions,

Yes he is one of the better drivers but Vettel/Raikkonen/Alonso/Ricciardo/Verstappen or even the likes of Hulkenberg who is a very underrated driver could win in a Mercedes,

NOBODY is bigger than the sport/team, not Hamilton, not Schumacher or the true greats such as Senna/Prost/Lauda (in his day)

There will always be another great driver to come along,

Hamilton by his own admission was shattered at the Austrian GP as he had a late night out with his music buddies and the getting an invite from Steven Speilberg to attend a movie shoot at proper daft o'clock in the morning which he attended,

Not very professional at all......

You may have gathered I'm not his biggest fan and find him arrogant and self centred

So yes, I would sack him for disobeying team orders from his paymasters,

:shaun:

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I reckon one of the cars will come off the track due to some dust on the metal bit on the left and overly heavy use of the throttle trigger.

 

Due to the amount of time taken getting under the sofa to retrieve the aforementioned car the race will be lost :oops:

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Now if I'm Mr Mercedes and therefore paying his wages I wouldn't be happy, after the first time he ignored my orders it would have been right! One more time and you're out, it's my team and I decide who does what. (Eddie Jordan said as much after the first time)

 

 

Couple of other facts I like to bring up regarding the Button/Hamilton pairing, over the 3 years at McLaren Button outscored Hamilton on total points, Button was also the first team mate to finish higher than Hamilton, Rosberg is now the second,

 

 

:shaun:

 

Actually Button only outpointed Lewis in 2011, during the period 2010-2012 he was out qualified and outscored.

 

I have a lot of time for Eddie Jordan but he don't half play to the camera :yes: he also has his nose right up Bernie's jacksie but I can understand that because he knows which side his bread is buttered on.

 

The reality is what drivers can get away with behaviour wise depends on their results/status, so yes a Palmer wouldn't have dreamed of pulling a stunt like that but you simply can't go and sack a Lewis/Alonso for minor stuff because the following year he'll be in a rivals car beating you.

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So yes, I would sack him for disobeying team orders from his paymasters,

 

:shaun:

But arent team orders against the Rules within the sport. So he was right to ignore them..

 

At the end of the day they are all out to win. If backing the pack up is how he was going to possibly win the title then why wouldn't he do it.

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But arent team orders against the Rules within the sport. So he was right to ignore them..

 

At the end of the day they are all out to win. If backing the pack up is how he was going to possibly win the title then why wouldn't he do it.

They changed it so team orders are once again allowed

 

:shaun:

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Actually Button only outpointed Lewis in 2011, during the period 2010-2012 he was out qualified and outscored.

 

The reality is what drivers can get away with behaviour wise depends on their results/status, so yes a Palmer wouldn't have dreamed of pulling a stunt like that but you simply can't go and sack a Lewis/Alonso for minor stuff because the following year he'll be in a rivals car beating you.

 

Sorry, I might have worded it wrong

 

Over the 3 years together Button out pointed Hamilton by Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672

 

Yes you are right in as much that Hamilton outscored Button by 2 seasons to 1and by poles/front row starts/fastest laps but not overall points

 

But he wouldn't because until the other teams get their act together the only team that will consistently win are Mercedes (Hopefully that might change next year depending on how they can adapt the new rules, but the rules as far as I'm aware are not engine based)

:shaun:

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So basically race for us, potentially risk your life for us, but don't win unless we tell you to?

 

Why do people watch this pointless corrupt sport?

Because sometimes, you get something like Canada 2011 and you realise that nothing else can be as exciting in the same way as a quality F1 - even if it does take 4 hours!

Edited by chrisjpainter
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So basically race for us, potentially risk your life for us, but don't win unless we tell you to?

 

Why do people watch this pointless corrupt sport?

Basically yes, but there have always been team orders, even when they were banned,

 

"Fernando is faster than you" was a classic when they were banned, from Rob Smedley (Massa's engineer) to Massa when they wanted him to let Alonso through but couldn't actually say it,

 

ALL of Schumachers team mates (After he showed how good he was) were under orders not to beat him which is why they never tried,

 

Another classic was the infamous Multi 21 between Vettel and Webber which was supposed to imply that Vettel was supposed to follow Webber home as not to stress the engines/cars at the en of the race (Vettel ignored this also)

 

Is it corrupt to have team orders? I've watched bike races where one team mate has let another through to maximise points and a championship win

 

:shaun:

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Is it corrupt to have team orders? I've watched bike races where one team mate has let another through to maximise points and a championship win

 

:shaun:

So that is three F1 instances in one post, which bike one were you thinking of?

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To be honest I can't remember the exact race and fully admit it happens more in F1 than Moto GP but team orders have there place whether we agree or disagree

 

You can google various instances of team orders in bike racing,

 

Here is the latest I can find

 

"Didn't this happen in the final WSBK race last year? IIRC Sykes had to win and Biaggi needed 5th? Sykes won the race and Biaggis teammate slowed down to let him pick up a spot and he ended up winning the championship by ½ a point"

 

Does happen, while I was checking it seems Colin Edwards helped Rossi to one of his titles

 

 

 

 

 

 

:shaun:

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Team orders are a good thing for the sport as a whole because if teams can't win they won't play, drivers are paid to do what they're told and some have no. 1 & no. 2 written into their contract but also reminded that in order to win the constructors championship they may be forced to help team mates on occasion.

 

The fact some won't on some occasions is just human nature and what makes watching it interesting but I have to say what Vettel did to Webber was deplorable.

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You have to remember that, although it isn't presented that way, its the constructors championship that is the big prize. The drivers championship is secondary to that. People like Ferrari and Mercedes don't put all that money and effort into F1 so that one of their drivers can deliberately try to put the other member of his team off the podium.

 

Hamilton isn't that good a driver, any of the top six or seven drivers would do as well as he has done if they were in that car.

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Hamilton isn't that good a driver, any of the top six or seven drivers would do as well as he has done if they were in that car.

Hamilton is rated by other drivers and respected F1 pundits as being one of the fastest out there today. Alonso also.

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As someone fairly new to watching F1 I don't get how the team orders are even legal, imagine at the beginning of the season you put a bet on Hamilton winning the championship, in the last race it's still possible but needs driver tactics, then all of a sudden the other comes and the driver has to lose, in any other sport this would be "match fixing" and would be investigated yet in F1 it's perfectly legal?

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As someone fairly new to watching F1 I don't get how the team orders are even legal, imagine at the beginning of the season you put a bet on Hamilton winning the championship, in the last race it's still possible but needs driver tactics, then all of a sudden the other comes and the driver has to lose, in any other sport this would be "match fixing" and would be investigated yet in F1 it's perfectly legal?

 

You place the bet knowing it's not a clear cut set of rules :yes:, they don't call it the Pirahna club for nothing. It costs around £700 million a year to run a front line outfit and that kind of money comes from huge sponsorship deals from corporations that need their names associated with winning. This is why the constructors championship is so important and why they ultimately call the shots (within the constraints of human ego's.)

 

There have been many occasions where brain fade has led drivers taking each other out of a One-Two finish, it's even happened in main engine sponsors home race events :lol:, whatever way we look at it money talks so team orders have to exist. If they ban it it just morphs into teams using code language. Winning at F1 level is i n c r e d i b l y difficult and therefore not left to driver whim.

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