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how good was bruce lee


kody
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An iconic figure in the martial arts. He certainly made MA popular in the 70s when little was really known about them. He codified/created his own style Jeet Kune Do and he deserves respect for that.

 

However . . .

 

Was he really great? Probably not by todays professional standards. His technique isn't really that good.

 

Was he really that fast? Well certainly he had good hand speed but watch any high quality boxer or MMA fighter who weighs roughly the same as Bruce and you'll find plenty who are just as quick if not quicker.

 

The one inch punch. Nothing mystical about it. It's pure body mechanics. The sideways stanch Bruce used allowed him to put the power of his lats into what is far more of a push than a punch. I'm not saying he wasn't good at it, or that it wouldn't hurt but it's nothing special really.

 

How good is JKD? I believe there are a couple of MMA fighters who have it as a base style but those fighters still have training in BJJ, wrestling, boxing and Muay Thai to make them more effective overall.

 

The style vs style fights were done in the early days of the UFC. One style dominated all others and that was Brazillian Ju-Jitsu. The reason was simple. It doesn't matter how good you are at striking if as so often happens in a fight you find yourself on the ground. Then the striker is dead meat. That's why if McGregor ever gets to fight Mayweather it will be a boxing match. Inside the ring with boxing rules Floyd is amazing. Put him in the octagon and he would be lucky to last more than a couple of minutes.

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Bruce wasn't training to fight 12 rounds or in a MMA match. He was only interested in obliterating an opponent in a street fight within seconds.

 

This is what its all about.

You can train in 'sport' fighting styles all you like,all the usual MA ,boxing ect.

They have rules.

When it comes down to a real fight where your life might be on the line,there can be no rules.

This is why JKD and other street fighting styles like Krav Maga are so effective.

Bruce was not a competition fighter,so its a little unfair to compare him to them,as in 'could he have beaten Ali ect'

In the ring,highly unlikely , on the street ,for real ,Ali would have been retrieving his testicles from his stomach and spitting his teeth out from his broken jaw in 10 seconds.

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This is what its all about.

You can train in 'sport' fighting styles all you like,all the usual MA ,boxing ect.

They have rules.

When it comes down to a real fight where your life might be on the line,there can be no rules.

This is why JKD and other street fighting styles like Krav Maga are so effective.

Bruce was not a competition fighter,so its a little unfair to compare him to them,as in 'could he have beaten Ali ect'

In the ring,highly unlikely , on the street ,for real ,Ali would have been retrieving his testicles from his stomach and spitting his teeth out from his broken jaw in 10 seconds.

Sorry but absolute load of nonsense.

Edited to say well some of your post anyway

Edited by 12gauge82
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This is what its all about.

You can train in 'sport' fighting styles all you like,all the usual MA ,boxing ect.

They have rules.

When it comes down to a real fight where your life might be on the line,there can be no rules.

This is why JKD and other street fighting styles like Krav Maga are so effective.

Bruce was not a competition fighter,so its a little unfair to compare him to them,as in 'could he have beaten Ali ect'

In the ring,highly unlikely , on the street ,for real ,Ali would have been retrieving his testicles from his stomach and spitting his teeth out from his broken jaw in 10 seconds.

Martial arts that are pressure tested constantly ie boxing/Mma/Muay Thai/ judo/Bjj are your best bet for self defence due to the nature of the training .

Live sparring against real resistance full contact and repretitive drilling to engraving the movement into the muscle memory .

Bruce lee was obviously a very skilled man but the hype and mystique his Jkd encourages is in my opinion dangerous , I see so many people who claim they have all these killer techniques that would devastate a opponent on the "street" it's laughable .

The average boxer would always beat the average martial artist ........ Why ? it's a relatively simple skill set to learn and the constant repetition of those basic punches builds muscle memory and quick reactions coupled with the fact they are always being tested through sparring .

There's no magic to martial arts

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Sorry but absolute load of nonsense.

Edited to say well some of your post anyway

 

Please elaborate.

 

Martial arts that are pressure tested constantly ie boxing/Mma/Muay Thai/ judo/Bjj are your best bet for self defence due to the nature of the training .

Live sparring against real resistance full contact and repretitive drilling to engraving the movement into the muscle memory .

 

 

There's no magic to martial arts

 

Like I say these are sports,with rules.

You know if you are getting pummelled ,you can time out,surrender ect.

A real world situation you forget 90% of your training, as you realise that you can end up getting your head stomped.

Edited by Rewulf
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Please elaborate.

 

 

Like I say these are sports,with rules.

You know if you are getting pummelled ,you can time out,surrender ect.

A real world situation you forget 90% of your training, as you realise that you can end up getting your head stomped.

Competition for one thing prepares you for the inevitable adrenaline rush that would happen during any sudden conflict or attack on the street etc

The hard resistance you get from a non resisting opponent in any combat sport that is full contact would most of the time stop you being sucker punched as your used to physical violence .

As for forgetting 90% of your training this goes back to muscle memory and training regulary at a decent gym/dojo as the basics are renforced daily , a hard punch kick or throw is a still a hard kick punch or throw with or without the confines of a sporting environment .

If I'm really getting pummelled I don't need anyone to teach me how to stomp the groin bite or poke my fingers in there eyes 😂

No matter how effective Krav Maga/Jkd it all boils down to controlling the adrenaline/shock of confrontation

You won't learn that from a non pressure tested system

Oneshotkiller

Dam grade judo

Former boxer

Muaythai fighter

And have trained in Jkd/Jun fan kickboxing

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Competition for one thing prepares you for the inevitable adrenaline rush that would happen during any sudden conflict or attack on the street etc

The hard resistance you get from a non resisting opponent in any combat sport that is full contact would most of the time stop you being sucker punched as your used to physical violence .

As for forgetting 90% of your training this goes back to muscle memory and training regulary at a decent gym/dojo as the basics are renforced daily , a hard punch kick or throw is a still a hard kick punch or throw with or without the confines of a sporting environment .

If I'm really getting pummelled I don't need anyone to teach me how to stomp the groin bite or poke my fingers in there eyes

No matter how effective Krav Maga/Jkd it all boils down to controlling the adrenaline/shock of confrontation

You won't learn that from a non pressure tested system

Oneshotkiller

Dam grade judo

Former boxer

Muaythai fighter

And have trained in Jkd/Jun fan kickboxing

 

Im not disagreeing with you about controlling adrenaline,or about training muscle memory.

Some self defence training is better than none in every situation.

All I meant was, certain oriental martial arts tend to stick to 'form' and kata style repetitive movements to build muscle memory.

Which ,in my very humble opinion,and experience , tend to go straight out the window when a real situation happens.

The JKD and Krav that I studied was very much based on real world confrontation,and we regularly trained in scenarios as such.

Military self defence follows the same style,is fast to learn,effective and basic.

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Please elaborate.

 

Just that Bruce Lee was an actor first and all though very talented not a professional fighter, to think he could win a fight against someone of Ali standard is crazy. I agree there are differences in real life confrontation and fighting sports, however I have experienced a large amount of both having had to use force literally hundreds of times in the line of my job and having also competed at a high level in several fight sports (In my youth I could probably turned pro, how far id have got is of course debatable), back to my point, military, police style self defence training is designed to give people who have never had any training a basic way of defending themselves that can be taught in a short amount of time but in no way would allow them without an advantage of weapons or numbers defeat a trained fighter, particularly a professional who is also genetically blessed. Alot of the storys around Bruce Lee have been hyped up and his 1 inch punch is no miracle and although impressive for such a small guy I have met many people who could hit far far harder. There are many people who have made outrageous claims and another was Lenny McLean, he to could have a scrap and did compete in many brutal fights however he also sent challenges to Ali and others he also claimed in his book he was undefeated this was untrue and he had been beaten several times my guys who would have been buried buy top tear fighters.

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Another point I haven't touched on is size. Although training out matches size alone nearly every time, on top of my previous points Bruce Lee was tiny, there's very good reason for weight categories in fighting sports and is proven, two fighters of similar ability and the bigger stronger guy will win nearly every time. So not only would Lee need to overcome imho vastly inferior fighting ability but also a huge weight disadvantaged, to go back to your original post Ali or the like vs Lee would end in a very quick loss for Bruce.

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If you want to see a real film watch 'the ip man' both films,true story.

There is no one style that beats all,just hardened obsessed individuals that train intensely.

I trained for over 20 years in judo and kyakoshinkai each one conflicts the other,some average size guys could literally punch you to the floor with same strength as the biggest guys,nothing predictable,be fast be first and conditioned to take punishment and just hope you are the younger fitter one.

Was Bruce the best,at what he did yes,we are still talking about him and the way he brought fighting to the masses and developed a style void of fluff.

Kyokashinkai's founder mas oyama is a real legend and would of beat anyone in his day.

 

ous

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If you want to see a real film watch 'the ip man' both films,true story.

There is no one style that beats all,just hardened obsessed individuals that train intensely.

I trained for over 20 years in judo and kyakoshinkai each one conflicts the other,some average size guys could literally punch you to the floor with same strength as the biggest guys,nothing predictable,be fast be first and conditioned to take punishment and just hope you are the younger fitter one.

Was Bruce the best,at what he did yes,we are still talking about him and the way he brought fighting to the masses and developed a style void of fluff.

Kyokashinkai's founder mas oyama is a real legend and would of beat anyone in his day.

 

ous

Judoka KI ?

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If you want to see a real film watch 'the ip man' both films,true story.

There is no one style that beats all,just hardened obsessed individuals that train intensely.

I trained for over 20 years in judo and kyakoshinkai each one conflicts the other,some average size guys could literally punch you to the floor with same strength as the biggest guys,nothing predictable,be fast be first and conditioned to take punishment and just hope you are the younger fitter one.

Was Bruce the best,at what he did yes,we are still talking about him and the way he brought fighting to the masses and developed a style void of fluff.

Kyokashinkai's founder mas oyama is a real legend and would of beat anyone in his day.

 

ous

Kyokashinkai is the full contact karate yes ?

Again a pressure tested system and one where the basic techniques are re enforced constantly

The fact is we have no idea how good Bruce was , I think we could safely say he would have been able to defend himself against the average attacker as much due to his superior fitness and conditioning as well as his martial arts training .

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All good comments ,and Im not disagreeing with anyone.

Everyone has their own opinion on the best fighting/self defence, style/discipline ,the debate rages on constantly in certain circles :lol:

But back to the original question about Bruce Lee , how good was he ?

Ive done a fair bit of reading on both him, and Ip Man ,and no, not the sensationalist stories and fantasy films about them both.

The answer is we will never know,but to dismiss him as just an actor who knew some 'kung fu' is a mistake.

His philosophy of fighting,and dedication to training are rare things in these modern times of highly paid sportsmen.

Was he the best? Of course not.

Is he a legend ? Very much so.

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This is what its all about.

You can train in 'sport' fighting styles all you like,all the usual MA ,boxing ect.

They have rules.

When it comes down to a real fight where your life might be on the line,there can be no rules.

This is why JKD and other street fighting styles like Krav Maga are so effective.

Bruce was not a competition fighter,so its a little unfair to compare him to them,as in 'could he have beaten Ali ect'

In the ring,highly unlikely , on the street ,for real ,Ali would have been retrieving his testicles from his stomach and spitting his teeth out from his broken jaw in 10 seconds.

 

Agreed, although the early UFC fights had virtually no rules. From memory only eye gouging was disallowed. The fighters could, and did, headbutt, strike to groin, kick downed opponents and generally inflicted as much punishment as possible by any means at their disposal.

 

Bruce vs Ali in a street fight . . . hmmm I'm not so sure Bruce would win. Ali's reach advantage is possibly enough to nullify the kicks and I doubt very much Bruce would be breaking Ali's jaw, much more likely to be the other way around. Not to say that Bruce couldn't win but his best chance of doing so would be to take the fight to the ground.

 

The average boxer would always beat the average martial artist ........ Why ? it's a relatively simple skill set to learn and the constant repetition of those basic punches builds muscle memory and quick reactions coupled with the fact they are always being tested through sparring .

There's no magic to martial arts

 

That's a very brave and broad statement to make. If you're talking about striking styles then yes I'd agree. However throw some grappling into the mix and the outcome is far less sure.

 

I sparred with a very competent boxer when I was doing Ju-Jitsu. He was absolutely deadly with his hands and trying to land a punch on his body was very difficult, he blocked everything with his arms. Put him on the mat though and all of a sudden he was in a lot of trouble.

 

Another point I haven't touched on is size. Although training out matches size alone nearly every time, on top of my previous points Bruce Lee was tiny, there's very good reason for weight categories in fighting sports and is proven, two fighters of similar ability and the bigger stronger guy will win nearly every time. So not only would Lee need to overcome imho vastly inferior fighting ability but also a huge weight disadvantaged, to go back to your original post Ali or the like vs Lee would end in a very quick loss for Bruce.

 

Usually . . . but not always

 

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Enter the dragon where Lee crosses hands with O'Hara lees first punch had to be slowed down as the camera then could not pick it upi have never seen such a fast punch faster than any boxer I can assure you that watch it then tell me what you think

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Enter the dragon where Lee crosses hands with O'Hara lees first punch had to be slowed down as the camera then could not pick it upi have never seen such a fast punch faster than any boxer I can assure you that watch it then tell me what you think

I can assure you Lee could not throw a punch 'faster than any boxer', funnily enough that's what boxers specialise in and therfore what they're best at. This is the type of nonsense that gets banded about Bruce Lee and is nothing more than tall tales and myths, that said for an actor he was certainly a talented in martial arts.
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