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how good was bruce lee


kody
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You do know bjj is kodokan judo? The same techniques, the same everything.

Judo is 5 schools of ju jitsu with some silly techniques removed.

Modern olympic judo is not kodokan judo and not the fighting art to japanese police and military or the british police in the krav maga style home office syllabus that now exists.

 

Ju-jitsu is the traditional Japanese martial art that dates back to feudal times. Ju-do is the sport form of that martial art. Just as Kendo is the sporting form of Kenjtsu, the art of Japanese swordsmanship. Do forms are arts, jitsu/jutsu forms are combat variants, although even in a jitsu form the art itself is important.

 

Brazillian ju jitsu is largely traditional Japanese ju-jitsu with some variations thrown in and (certainly compared to the ju-jitsu I received a 1st Dan in) a heavier emphasis on grappling and groundwork. BJJ also has a heavier involvement in sporting/grappling competitions than traditional Japanese ju-jitsu. However, despite it's origins BJJ is far closer to traditional ju-jitsu than it is to judo.

 

I'm not quite sure what "silly techniques" you think were removed from ju-jitsu in it's transformation into judo. I did a little judo when I was younger and a lot of ju jitsu when I was somewhat older. All the throws, locks and chokes I learnt in judo were present in jujitsu. However at no point in learning judo was I taught strikes to soften up an opponent before throwing them or strikes to the throat, eyes and ears to take an opponent out of the fight. Nor was I taught kicks, punches and blocking techniques in any judo lesson.

 

As I pointed out, few judoka can cut it in the world of MMA, whilst BJJ has become one of the essential training styles for MMA competitors. How much modern judo relates to the original ideas of Jigoro Kano is debateable. And certainly BJJ has little in common with Olympic judo. BJJ is a true fighting style, as was proved when the Gracie family entered Royce into the original UFC events and he destroyed every opponent that faced him.

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I was going to type a reply but this is easier

 

https://jiujitsuvortex.com/2011/09/17/a-quick-history-of-bjj-from-jujutsu-to-judo-to-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

 

Having also got to dan grade in judo I feel qualified enough to suggest it's not the sport version of ju jitsu but a fighting art in its own right.

Modern judo is sadly a pale imitation of kodokan judo.

 

The strikes etc your are taught in ju it's exist in judo in kata form only as they were deemed unnecessary by its creator.

Edited by GingerCat
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I was going to type a reply but this is easier

 

https://jiujitsuvortex.com/2011/09/17/a-quick-history-of-bjj-from-jujutsu-to-judo-to-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

 

Having also got to dan grade in judo I feel qualified enough to suggest it's not the sport version of ju jitsu but a fighting art in its own right.

Modern judo is sadly a pale imitation of kodokan judo.

 

The strikes etc your are taught in ju it's exist in judo in kata form only as they were deemed unnecessary by its creator.

 

Interesting article but a lot of what it says matches with my original comments regarding the differences between do and jutsu styles.

 

"Kano’s goal was to teach his system with more of a budo than a bujutsu approach by emphasizing physical education and personal development, so he decided to call his art judo to differentiate it from the traditional jujutsu schools."

 

The proof of the pudding is in your closing sentence. If you relegate strikes to only kata exercises, deeming them unnecessary, then you are moving away from a combat form into an artistic/sporting form.

 

I'm not saying that judo isn't effective, it can be, under the correct circumstances. But against opponents who are well trained in more combatative grappling styles, and against efficient strikers, judo becomes far less effective. As I already stated, you only have to look at the styles studied by MMA fighters to see what arts are truly effective. Judo, as it's taught today, doesn't really cut it.

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Well said the last couipe of posts, i was just going to add something sililar. Ur true more brutal martial arts don't really have comps as some of the moves u practice are quite literally how to kill someone.

Even in many karate's when u break down a lot of the kata's and analise closely the different moves there is a lot more to it than just repeating random moves

 

A lot will also depend on ur sensi and how he teaches the certain style. 1 off my old sensi's got very much into pressure point training and a couple of times he got an americain 'master' with nothing to do with karate (who actually had done some seminars/training for seagal) to come over and do some seminars for us. Just blows u away wot is possible. Give u a whole different outlook on kata's and some of the basic techniques when u brek them down and put a pressure point tinge to them

 

Blows ur mind even further how they know about all these points and wot they do as even now modern medicine is still discovering stuff like that

 

Its really comparing apples and oranages trying to compare Lee (or any traditional martial artist) to boxers in the past or ur modern day MMA fighters now.

Ur talking 40 yers ago things were very different. Even Lee doing wot he done and taking aspects of various other kung fu styles and mixing them together would be quite ground breaking at the time and would be upsetting a lot of the older established kung fu masters.

Possibly he started to pave the way or modern MMA thinking?

 

Martial atists already have techniques to learn and study that have usually stricly been laid down over cenuries and ur not really meant to veer from them, hence sparring is often termed 'freestyle'.

 

I know everyone has there own favourite sport/style etc. But to think that a boxer will always throw a faster punch than a kung fu artist or specialises in fast punches more is rubbish.

I have no doubt boxers have fast hands but so do many kung fu styles (JKD or WC, more so than karate styles) as they specialise more in a barrage of blows rather than a few heavier/harder shots. In some kung fu styles ur hands are almot always moving.

Myself and few random folk used to hire a squash court at wknds occasionally and spar/train with each other mixing styles, and its a very very strange thing to fight against someone doing JKD or Wing chung, folk better than me at karate used to really struggle

 

The simple fact sticking rigidly to 1 style system will always be a slight disadvantage (esp if an older more rigid/traditional system) for MMA, .

 

But for ur normal street fight/self defence its more about the individual than the style, its hard to beat the old open palm strike to solar plexus, does minimal real damage (not breaking noses, jaws etc and getting blood everywhere) but will scare the hell out of someone not used to being winded and often sits them down.

A lot of different styles all use open and strikes, knees and elbows in there basic or advanced techniques (althou not in comp's sparring) and all will inflict serious damage when they connect.

Really if u look a bit deeper behind many styles they do al contain simlilar elements

Edited by scotslad
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I don't know why I keep replying to this thread but to keep it simple a few points yes Lee was talented, would he beat a boxer at boxing,no. He'd of been eaten alive in a top level mma competition and if you factor in people claiming he was the hardest guy in the world its gets even more ridiculous he was tiny and there are weight categories in all top level fight sports for very good reason, oh and another fact boxers tend to be the best in the world at one specific thing and that's punching, I don't care how fast Bruce was could he beat the fastest boxers, Highley unlikely, remember film back in the day aren't like modena cameras and won't pick fast movements up like they do today. He was exceptional for an actor but like the governor (who did actually used to fight) a lot of myths and story's, some are stupid enough to belive he was never beat and how he challenged Ali to a fight ect, he took a fight with a washed up boxer and got hammered yet people still belive he was the hardest guy in the world.

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I don't think anyones seriously claiming he was the hardest man in the world, but i would say its harsh to call him just an actor.

He is probably 1 of the first to really bring MA's into the mainstream western world. Without him the whole martial arts and MMA scene may not be near where it is today

Even in his day he would be up against a fair bit of racism too

 

Have u never seen someone working a Mook yan jong? (the wooden training dummiy things) Not really that different to a boxer working a speed bag

 

But even boxing has moved on a lot in the last 40yrs too

Even if u compared modern boxer with a modern JKD practioner, I serious doubt he would of came close to beating a boxer in a boxing match but the skills training is not massively different both JKD and boxing use a ot striking

i would put my money on them in a street fight as it was stage nearer to wot most folk train for MMA

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bruce lee is a legend, that's a mixture of fact and Hollywood, I would say he was superb, but so are many others, like cassius clay told everybody he was the greatest, many believed it, I dident, a very good boxer, but Marciano was the greatest because of his record, like Hendry is the greatest snooker player, like Federer.....so on and so on, its all about your record, ask Calzaghe.

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bruce lee is a legend, that's a mixture of fact and Hollywood, I would say he was superb, but so are many others, like cassius clay told everybody he was the greatest, many believed it, I dident, a very good boxer, but Marciano was the greatest because of his record, like Hendry is the greatest snooker player, like Federer.....so on and so on, its all about your record, ask Calzaghe.

 

But Hendry says Ronnie is the best.

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but Hendry knows its himself by a long way, when rocket was getting near to his 7 a few years back, you could sense his alarm, now its looking unlikely he is more relaxed, i love watching the rocket, but Hendry, davis, O Sullivan is my order.

 

I have to agree, you can't argue with numbers and it is Ronnie's own fault for letting the mental side and outside factors get the better of him. Having said that looking at it purely in art form and magic of the moment, only Ronnie has absolutely astonished me with games that almost brought a tear to my eye in a way none of the others have including Jimmy who I love too.

No way would Ronnie beat Bruce lee in a fight.

 

What does hendry know about fighting?

:lol:

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