Cartridge buying co-operative

[lksopener]

As the price of cartridges continues to move up at the local dealers I have been thinking why like minded shooters don't join together and buy in bulk direct from the suppliers?

 

 

 

Is is there an issue with the suppliers dealing with individuals at such volume or am I missing something?

 

 

 

I noticed recently for for example a discussion regarding the Winchester AA cartridges on here, they just aren't in existence in the UK at the minute but I know many people who would like them back.

 

 

Any thoughts chaps?

 

 

 

Liam

[wymberley]

Use or lose your local dealers - it's not just cartridges they sell, apart from which how on earth are you going to get even two shooters to agree on what they want?

[motty]

Is anyone really that bothered about using Winchester AAs?

As far as I am aware, cartridge prices have not risen too dramatically.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It's a wonderful idea!

 

As said above, how will you manage to get agreement on the type of cartridge and do you have any idea just how big your order will need to be to get a discount?

[benspain_uk]

I like the idea, but I would assume that you would need to order a huge amount to get a big enough discount, and I remember reading somewhere storing over about 10k or so would require an explosive license. Also, it would need someone to be trusted with a large amount of money, be able to receive then, store them safely and securely and then be able and willing to distribute them afterwards!

 

Because of the above, it looks like it is going to be a real pain for one particular person to save a few pennies overall.

 

If there is a real need to ship in non-stocked carts, it might be worth having a chat with JustCartriges or another big supplier and see if they could be the middleman for a deal like this as they would be able to sort getting the carts delivered to each person. Will of course cost a fair bit more though....

Edited December 9, 2016 by benspain_uk

[ChrisPCarter]

From what my local dealers tell me, they make almost nothing on cartridges and only sell them to get people in the shop.

If that's the case you'd need a massive order to get any kind of discount and the person organising it would get nothing out of it just to save people a few quid here and there.

I'm sure you could put a mixed order in with someone like Hull or Gamebore but I bet you won't save a lot.

I think the main issue would be the storage of them as mentioned above.

[benspain_uk]

Looking again at JustCarts - if you order 10,000 postage is free, so an alternative might be to set up an order with a few other people locally and get 10,000 delivered. You could also pick and choose whatever you wanted rather than having to stick to one brand.

[Rewulf]

From what my local dealers tell me, they make almost nothing on cartridges and only sell them to get people in the shop.

 

 

Im sorry ,but your dealer is telling porkies.

I know how much they cost in bulk and theres a good 25+% profit ,depending on the sale price/quantity.

We sell at £4.50 a box of 25 English sporter 7.5s ,makes it 18p a cart.

We will sell a 1000 to members at 14p a cart and still make money.

 

To the OP, talk to a friendly clay ground and see if you can get a deal.

[shaun4860]

I was speaking to a local dealer about this,

 

If you buy a full pallet of cartridges, (can't remember how many on a pallet) you would get approx 1000 free,

 

So for a large outlay for the pallet you would save approx £200

 

As for the dealers selling them just to get people in and not making money?

 

Nah......at our club we make a small profit and the dealer we buy from makes a very nice profit.....look at the price difference between a box of 25 and the 1000 rate, they make a profit on everything.

 

We are probably on par price wise selling cartridges with the local big ground, where you click buying from us is that you get a slab of 250 at the 1000 rate

 

[Rupert]

OR, approach a smaller shop and ask if you can add you bigger order to his and perhaps enable the shop to get a bigger discount on his part.

 

I imagine the wholesaler will be very reluctant to give you a great deal in order to protect his retailers.

 

if you start ordering container full quantities regularly then they may start listening to you.

 

 

I was looking at shooting costs in the usa recently out of interest, a slab of clay loads were $88 plus local sales tax circa £80 and entries were way above what we pay,Made me think. They do have way better ground facilities but i dont shoot in the clubhouse.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Rupert

[Snoozer]

Use or lose your local dealers -

 

This...

[figgy]

So 25% is is still not a large amount on your outlay handling them at least twice etc, but they need to stop saying they don't make anything as if that was the case they wouldn't sell them. Lots of people go and just buy carts and nothing else.

[rbrowning2]

Im sorry ,but your dealer is telling porkies.

I know how much they cost in bulk and theres a good 25+% profit ,depending on the sale price/quantity.

We sell at £4.50 a box of 25 English sporter 7.5s ,makes it 18p a cart.

We will sell a 1000 to members at 14p a cart and still make money.

 

To the OP, talk to a friendly clay ground and see if you can get a deal.

You must be working from a different lyalvale express price list than the one my RFD has or buying by the million or some other deal with them or the VAT man because at £140.00 per 1000 you are losing money as from the October 2016 price list.

 

As has been said, support your local supplier or lose him they make very little on cartridges mine has on a few occasions suggested they are not worth the physical effort to handle them but keep the customers coming back for other items.

[ChrisPCarter]

So 25% is is still not a large amount on your outlay handling them at least twice etc, but they need to stop saying they don't make anything as if that was the case they wouldn't sell them. Lots of people go and just buy carts and nothing else.

 

Yes but it's like supermarket loss-leaders, ultra cheap milk, bread etc just to get people in who will hopefully buy other more profitable stuff they didn't really need while in the shop.

One dealer told me if he didn't charge a 2.5% credit card fee on a slab he'd lose money on them as that was the kind of margin he was making - that info was volunteered, I hadn't been moaning about the price.

I've certainly heard this from 3 different shops around my way.

I guess it depends how many these small shops are ordering in - I can't see them being in the many thousands due to storage space.

You must be working from a different lyalvale express price list than the one my RFD has or buying by the million or some other deal with them or the VAT man because at £140.00 per 1000 you are losing money as from the October 2016 price list.

 

As has been said, support your local supplier or lose him they make very little on cartridges mine has on a few occasions suggested they are not worth the physical effort to handle them but keep the customers coming back for other items.

 

That's what I've been told too.

[Guest cookoff013]

for a discount you`d need to order 50k atleast.

second, no shop would let you trade with them. they make no money. or ask "why you no buy our cartridges"

 

i bet if you see george and ask for 50k 1oz loads he`d be up for it.

 

why would i want to shoot winchesters? there are many other shells available cheaper and better.

 

as for manufacturers selling for minimum profit.... nah.

as for dealers selling at loss to get ppl in door.......nah.

 

you should have a word with george, see if he could knock 50k out for you.... see what the end price would be?

[Guest cookoff013]

 

Yes but it's like supermarket loss-leaders, ultra cheap milk, bread etc just to get people in who will hopefully buy other more profitable stuff they didn't really need while in the shop.

One dealer told me if he didn't charge a 2.5% credit card fee on a slab he'd lose money on them as that was the kind of margin he was making - that info was volunteered, I hadn't been moaning about the price.

I've certainly heard this from 3 different shops around my way.

I guess it depends how many these small shops are ordering in - I can't see them being in the many thousands due to storage space.

 

That's what I've been told too.

 

thats a few shops.

one shop down here was selling shells for more than double elsewhere.

no-one aims to make 2.5% profit. its not even worth it.

[rbrowning2]

Cartridge prices are very competitive the highest prices I find are normally on just cartridges website with your local small RFD happy to sell for less and yes make less profit it they don't the next shop will. I am talking 1000 rate as most hike the price for fewer but again not all do.

 

But as none of them can afford to sell them for no profit or as a lost leader they rely on repeat business and selling as many as possible.

 

As has been said George manufactures and sells direct so should be able to offer the best price but the logistics of making a

co-operative work would require a lot of cooperation and effort to save only a few pounds.

[Cranfield]

In a perfect world you would be able to get a VAT registered Farmer to buy the cartridges for vermin control and then give them to you FOC.

Coincidentally, you would then gift him a sum of money equivalent to the VAT free price of the cartridges (thereby saving 20%).

[Rupert]

In a perfect world you would be able to get a VAT registered Farmer to buy the cartridges for vermin control and then give them to you FOC.

Coincidentally, you would then gift him a sum of money equivalent to the VAT free price of the cartridges (thereby saving 20%).

Tidy solution for any pest controllers

[ChrisPCarter]

 

thats a few shops.

one shop down here was selling shells for more than double elsewhere.

no-one aims to make 2.5% profit. its not even worth it.

 

Well I'd say I'm getting very competitive prices, certainly £10 to £30 a slab less than somewhere like Just Cartridges for the same thing.

How could anywhere sell them at double??

[Rupert]

Interesting C and P from another shooting forum for the benefit of those who are not members there.

 

Yep can be done but takes some organising.

The last 2 years a group of us (7 or 8.) up here in the Rugby area have done it with Armusa cartridges as i am sponsored by them and helped set it up as they wanted a specific set of small gauge cartridges for NSSA skeet.

Takes some effort as its all about ease for the supplier. So single payment upon order and single delivery address. (yes you have to deal with the maximum limit) so we arrange that the are collected by everyone in the group on the day of delivery.

We basically work out how many cartridges we need for the year then bulk order and club together. We get to choose from their entire range and can mix and match at an agreed rate for everyone. So if someone only wants say 1500 they get the same rate as the whole group.

The best economy comes in making sure you fill pallets (1200kg) as shipping "short" pallets is expensive - now you can get about 25,000 12 gauge 28gram cartridges on a pallet but by mixing gauges we have had as many as 28,500 on each pallet.

 

Now for the HARSH bit - dealers are not making a fortune on cartridges so yes you will save money but your NOT talking hundreds and hundreds by time you take everything into account. We do it for ease as in ensuring that we have the various cartridges we want all year readily available.

Now for the other HARSH bit - by taking the gun shop out the loop and buying direct you impact their sales. Hit those sales too hard and they might not be there when you need them for something else.

 

If saving money is the objective then look at reloading but having done this aswell it will give you a huge respect for the quality and quantity of cartridges you buy so easily from your local gun shop.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

But that is for small gauge shells, I can see why that would work.

 

To get a decent discount on 12 gauge shells you would need to be ordering 50000 or more.

[Rewulf]

You must be working from a different lyalvale express price list than the one my RFD has or buying by the million or some other deal with them or the VAT man because at £140.00 per 1000 you are losing money as from the October 2016 price list.

 

As has been said, support your local supplier or lose him they make very little on cartridges mine has on a few occasions suggested they are not worth the physical effort to handle them but keep the customers coming back for other items.

 

I can assure we are not losing money on selling them at that price.

 

As for supporting the local supplier,fair enough,but people come to shoot clays,they need shells,we sell them,we sell them at a competitive price,and believe it or not ,people still moan they are expensive!

 

 

Yes but it's like supermarket loss-leaders, ultra cheap milk, bread etc just to get people in who will hopefully buy other more profitable stuff they didn't really need while in the shop.

One dealer told me if he didn't charge a 2.5% credit card fee on a slab he'd lose money on them as that was the kind of margin he was making - that info was volunteered, I hadn't been moaning about the price.

I've certainly heard this from 3 different shops around my way.

I guess it depends how many these small shops are ordering in - I can't see them being in the many thousands due to storage space.

 

That's what I've been told too.

 

Did you not think to yourself that he gets charged that 2.5% on a card transaction anyway ?

So effectively ,if you paid cash ,there is literally nothing in it for him?

So unless hes really thick and buys shells for far too much,so there really is no profit,he is telling porkies.

Im not having the loss leader bit,ammo sales are an RFDs bread and butter.

[lksopener]

Seems there's many potential issues to this so I'll leave it be, just something I'd considered.

 

L

[Snoozer]