12gauge82 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Have you served? No, I have upmost respect for all that have. I just don't think that anyone who hasn't walked in their shoes can tell them what's right or wrong, much less sentence them to jail, although I admit I have very limited knowledge of court martial procedures, but it would appear a civilian judge could have sentenced this soldier in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 No, I have upmost respect for all that have. I just don't think that anyone who hasn't walked in their shoes can tell them what's right or wrong, much less sentence them to jail, although I admit I have very limited knowledge of court martial procedures, but it would appear a civilian judge could have sentenced this soldier in this case. I should imagine he was sentenced based on the verdict of the Jury - who as it appears were all military, and as you have been told, some of who were the same cap badge. The Judge would have made the sentencing decision i should imagine, but not the verdict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Then we are no better than the scum we fight against, we are professionals. No I disagree, I genuinely believe we should fight by the rules, but if the enemy is prepared to behead hostages, murder innocent people and civilian bystanders, target hospitals, execute opposition combatants.......we, the so called civilised world have a moral responsibility to protect people from the sub humans that commit these obscene acts of murder and mayhem........we will not, I submit, do this by "pulling our punches".....but we might if we had an effective deterrent? And are prepared to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Al Blackman was tried by Courts Martial, a civilian judge sat advised by military counsel all of whom were serving, some under the same cap badge. The defence was abysmal, he was never going to get off saying he thought the taliban was dead. Some of the things that occurred during that tour, at that CP were horrendous which can't have failed to influence the way the blokes were thinking/acting. Lloyd90, I would refrain from calling them idiots. Welsh1 I agree with you on the whole and that it is a standard to aspire too but it is naive to think that good men don't make flawed decisions when under severe stress. Mate I am not so green as to say things don't happen,but this lad moved a body to a place where they couldn't be seen,shot him and told his mates he had broken the law. And it was all recorded. If he had just shot the bloke as they advanced through then no one would have done anything,it is the premeditated way he did things that do him up lie a Kipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Mate I am not so green as to say things don't happen,but this lad moved a body to a place where they couldn't be seen,shot him and told his mates he had broken the law. And it was all recorded. If he had just shot the bloke as they advanced through then no one would have done anything,it is the premeditated way he did things that do him up lie a Kipper. Exactly! How can you blame the judge or jury when they videod themselves doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've said before on these threads, in the forces it is absolutely drummed into you that you individually adhere to the laws of armed conflict or you individually face the consequences. You are made to redo the training at least once a year as part of your mandatory training requirement. As Welsh1 has just said, given the circumstances of this particular case, the guy is bang to rights. Given the wider situation regarding it being a horrific tour and that they were under massive stress, I feel that the whole thing is as tragic as everybody else, but that's all circumstantial and doesnt change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 if we dont have certain standards then for what are we fighting?..the fact that the enemy are prepared to do anything/beheadings/suicide bombing etc makes it v tricky/provocative theatre but unless our forces stick to agreed rules of engagement etc are we not just going back to the middle ages?..do I support our forces hell yes but human history won't judge us well if we summarily execute despite no doubt huge provocation/temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sou'Wester Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Just to clarify Lloyd90 helmet cams were pretty standard on Herrick 14 and were heavily used for post incident reporting it wasn't recorded for a jolly. In this instance it's obviously been used as the prime evidence in a prosecution. Welsh1 and Zapp, I respect your opinions. In fact Welsh1 I believe you live near me so if you ever wanted to chat feel free to get in touch. What I would suggest is that most in the public domain are unaware of the specifics of the case so beyond their personal experiences of service or what they've seen in the press are probably not in a position to make informed comments. I will reiterate that what occurred that day was wrong however it is far more nuanced than this thread reflects. Edited January 5, 2017 by Sou'Wester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Losers fight by the rules! War is not a game, it is the final solution when all else fails...........do we want to win.......or do we want to be known as gallant losers? If the enemy fight by the rules then so should we! If the enemy fight dirty...........we should fight dirtier! Funny, I don't recall anyone declaring war on our country or trying to invade us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just to clarify Lloyd90 helmet cams were pretty standard on Herrick 14 and were heavily used for post incident reporting it wasn't recorded for a jolly. In this instance it's obviously been used as the prime evidence in a prosecution. Welsh1 and Zapp, I respect your opinions. In fact Welsh1 I believe you live near me so if you ever wanted to chat feel free to get in touch. What I would suggest is that most in the public domain are unaware of the specifics of the case so beyond their personal experiences of service or what they've seen in the press are probably not in a position to make informed comments. I will reiterate that what occurred that day was wrong however it is far more nuanced than this thread reflects. +1 If you haven't experienced war, I think it completely unfair to judge the actions of those forced to risk their lives and fight on our behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) +1 If you haven't experienced war, I think it completely unfair to judge the actions of those forced to risk their lives and fight on our behalf. the people who 'judged' him were serving Military and have probably been around a bit, The Judge was Navy if i recall. What we think doesn't really matter, its what the people sat there on the day thought. However, even if you are the best Brief in the world its probably difficult to argue against video evidence and a straight up admission of guilt, if there was no sound it may have been a different outcome? Edited January 5, 2017 by ph5172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 the people who 'judged' him were serving Military and have probably been around a bit, The Judge was Navy if i recall. What we think doesn't really matter, its what the people sat there on the day thought. However, even if you are the best Brief in the world its probably difficult to argue against video evidence and a straight up admission of guilt, if there was no sound it may have been a different outcome? Would be interesting to know what action if any he saw.And when I say judged I mean everyone including those on this forum who haven't received incoming fire or seen their mates blown up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just to clarify Lloyd90 helmet cams were pretty standard on Herrick 14 and were heavily used for post incident reporting it wasn't recorded for a jolly. In this instance it's obviously been used as the prime evidence in a prosecution. Welsh1 and Zapp, I respect your opinions. In fact Welsh1 I believe you live near me so if you ever wanted to chat feel free to get in touch. What I would suggest is that most in the public domain are unaware of the specifics of the case so beyond their personal experiences of service or what they've seen in the press are probably not in a position to make informed comments. I will reiterate that what occurred that day was wrong however it is far more nuanced than this thread reflects. I understand what you say ,and yes i have put it in simplistic terms,no doubt there are extenuating circumstances such as PTSD to take into account. I believe his charge will be reduced and he will be released due to time served, but he will not be cleared. Where do you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sou'Wester Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I understand what you say ,and yes i have put it in simplistic terms,no doubt there are extenuating circumstances such as PTSD to take into account. I believe his charge will be reduced and he will be released due to time served, but he will not be cleared. Where do you live? Towards Broad Haven, Pembrokeshire? To reiterate I believe everyone is entitled to their point of view and it's quite nice this thread hasn't degenerated into a slanging match like a lot seem to. To be explicit I believe Al Blackman was let down by the system somewhat and the incorrect charges were brought; he was guilty of a crime but in this instance it was far too simplistic to call it murder and there were many extenuating circumstances.. I hope this will be rectified and the charge reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Towards Broad Haven, Pembrokeshire? To reiterate I believe everyone is entitled to their point of view and it's quite nice this thread hasn't degenerated into a slanging match like a lot seem to. To be explicit I believe Al Blackman was let down by the system somewhat and the incorrect charges were brought; he was guilty of a crime but in this instance it was far too simplistic to call it murder and there were many extenuating circumstances.. I hope this will be rectified and the charge reduced. South or north? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 To be explicit I believe Al Blackman was let down by the system somewhat and the incorrect charges were brought; he was guilty of a crime but in this instance it was far too simplistic to call it murder and there were many extenuating circumstances.. I hope this will be rectified and the charge reduced. That sums up my view too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sou'Wester Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 South or north? North Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Towards Broad Haven, Pembrokeshire? To reiterate I believe everyone is entitled to their point of view and it's quite nice this thread hasn't degenerated into a slanging match like a lot seem to. To be explicit I believe Al Blackman was let down by the system somewhat and the incorrect charges were brought; he was guilty of a crime but in this instance it was far too simplistic to call it murder and there were many extenuating circumstances.. I hope this will be rectified and the charge reduced. Hopefully we can all agree to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hopefully we can all agree to that! Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riptide Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 The problem here is that the Chair of BASC should now consider his position ,in fact it seems that he with another wrote a indepth report or paper on having to concider the state of mind of soldiers brought on by thier exposure to war ,,if so did he apply it in this case as part of the defence team for Blackburn ? . .. My thinking is what should one do in this situation ? will this tarnish BASC in any way and if so should he stand down untill it is sorted out ? Food for thought . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) On 1/4/2017 at 22:00, panoma1 said: Losers fight by the rules! War is not a game, it is the final solution when all else fails...........do we want to win.......or do we want to be known as gallant losers? If the enemy fight by the rules then so should we! If the enemy fight dirty...........we should fight dirtier! I totally agree! Only stuck-up Officer/Politicians morons and above don't, or won't. (*** covering) it's not their *** in the firing line! That's 'most' not ALL i must add... I forget which high-ish ranking Officer in the UK/US Military once said, When politicians poke their noses into 'war matters' it's like fighting a war with one arm being tied around your back. Apologies to all you 'Vets' out there. I don't even recall who, where, or what war/conflict it was said in. But it makes the point. When all diplomacy has been hard 'fought' for (no pun intended) and lost, then it's time for the talkers to wind their necks in, and let the Military do it's job until the war/conflict is won! Respect to all that have served.... Edited December 15, 2017 by jam1e grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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