So where is the remain campaign now?

[Jaymo]

McCloggie

 

Up until this posting I have kept away from anything involving the NHS or Brexit as you will see on here there are those that support Brexit and those that don't.

One camp will put forward some logical arguements/stats or opinions- maybe even appreciate that people are entitled to an opinion without being classed as a 'Troll'

The other camp are adamant they are right.

 

NO ONE is right........

 

For me, I voted remain - was disappointed at the result and have my reservations, but hopefully they will be fully dispersed.

But comments made on the back of tabloid newspapers, friends of friends or the rise of the FTSE without fully understanding how Global Finance works is a little worrying- shall leave it at that.

 

FWIW, have worked in the Netherlands for many years and your sentiments are fully echoed by your Countrymen. Comparing standards of living/housing you realise how badly off the UK is.

 

The wife put it quite well........

 

It's a bit like that night of un-protected sex---- are you going to catch something nasty/ unwanted pregnancy or come away ( no pun intended) with pleasurable feelings/memories

[12gauge82]

What I was getting at with comparing the UK's economical figures vs the Dutch is that for a country so much bigger than the Netherlands, the UK is not faring that well really when the Netherlands trumps the UK in quite a few fields of business, oil ,pharmaceuticals and electronics to name but a few.

The way I see it is that we we're just crawling out of the last recession and now just dive into a new one voluntarily, and the working man is bearing the brunt yet again.

If you strip back the workings of the EU to its simplest form, we (and other rich countries) pay in huge amounts of money which in reality is being used to prop up other countries, take Poland, it's living standards were raised greatly by being a member of the EU, as more and more poorer countries have joined, the slice of pie has got smaller and smaller and Germany and others don't want to share, we're now going to (hopefully) stop paying that money, we'll continue trading with the rest of the world (we have many friends and links from the old empire for instance) the EU is going to have to plug the financial shortfall, which will put more pressure on France, Germany, the Netherlands and I can see other rich countries pulling out in time to leaving more and more financial hardship for rich countries that are foolish enough to remain, I belive in time it won't be the UK working man bearing the financial hardship but EU working class, time will tell which of us is right.

[12gauge82]

I think someone who thinks the service industry consists of mostly pint pullers and nail painters isn't really qualified to speak on such matters.

 

The scope is so far beyond that you've practically shot yourself in the foot from the off.

+1

[McCloggie]

It's a bit like that night of un-protected sex---- are you going to catch something nasty/ unwanted pregnancy or come away ( no pun intended) with pleasurable feelings/memories

 

Aye, I've noticed Britain has quite a culture in gambling. But you're right, we'll have to live with whatever comes from this.

[12gauge82]

 

Aye, I've noticed Britain has quite a culture in gambling. But you're right, we'll have to live with whatever comes from this.

We've also got quite a culture of winning often when the chips are down (which they're definitely not in this case). The Netherlands however tend to quit when the going gets tough. Edited January 8, 2017 by 12gauge82

[Danger-Mouse]

What I was getting at with comparing the UK's economical figures vs the Dutch is that for a country so much bigger than the Netherlands, the UK is not faring that well really when the Netherlands trumps the UK in quite a few fields of business, oil ,pharmaceuticals and electronics to name but a few.

The way I see it is that we we're just crawling out of the last recession and now just dive into a new one voluntarily, and the working man is bearing the brunt yet again.

 

Well, not pharmaceuticals, $36 billion is > than $28 billion but yes on the others. However a reliance on oil isn't too great, look at Scotland. But yes there's no doubt you have an impressive economy given the size of the nation.

 

I'm surprised though, given Amsterdam's reputation as a diamond centre, that gemstones don't rate in your top businesses.

[Whatmuff]

2017 brings a big recession (bigger than before) a housing market crash and lots more debt for the world. Oh and nothing to do with Brexit. That's my reckoning.

[McCloggie]

We've also got quite a culture of winning often when the chips are down (which they're definitely not in this case). The Netherlands however tend to quit when the going gets tough.

Can you please explain that one to me ?

[12gauge82]

Can you please explain that one to me ?

I already have in response to your earlier post describing the UK as a Jack Russell.

[12gauge82]

And I think that underestimates the UK as a whole, as a side it hasn't yet been mentioned the role our military might brings to the table, intelligence and battle field experience, both abroad and and terrorism. The EU needs us in today's turbulent world, its not russia who sits near our boarder. it wouldn't for instance be the first time we saved the Netherlands, ww2 springs to mind, they tried to go the we're impartial route (same as they did in ww1) and Hitler invaded them anyway, surrendering on the first day I belive, so maybe the UK is like a Jack Russell, we ARE bigger than our size and have been underestimated throughout history, almost always to our enemies demise, (before anyone says it I'm obviously not suggesting war with anyone). Europe needs us more than we need them and it's not the first or even second time germany got too big for her boots.

This one, I was highlighting the Netherlands buried their head in the sand when the nazi came marauding across Europe in the build up to ww2, the Netherlands stated they were neutral as they had during ww1 hoping the nazis would again leave them alone, they didn't and invaded anyway, the Netherlands surrender on the first day, I'm highlighting that the UK doesn't role over when others try to bully us.

[oowee]

NO ONE is right........

 

For me, I voted remain - was disappointed at the result and have my reservations, but hopefully they will be fully dispersed.

But comments made on the back of tabloid newspapers, friends of friends or the rise of the FTSE without fully understanding how Global Finance works is a little worrying- shall leave it at that.

 

Me too. Just in case though, I have been engaged in, what seems to be endless, contingency planning. Just in case

Edited January 8, 2017 by oowee

[UKPoacher]

If you strip back the workings of the EU to its simplest form, we (and other rich countries) pay in huge amounts of money which in reality is being used to prop up other countries, take Poland, it's living standards were raised greatly by being a member of the EU, as more and more poorer countries have joined, the slice of pie has got smaller and smaller and Germany and others don't want to share, we're now going to (hopefully) stop paying that money, we'll continue trading with the rest of the world (we have many friends and links from the old empire for instance) the EU is going to have to plug the financial shortfall, which will put more pressure on France, Germany, the Netherlands and I can see other rich countries pulling out in time to leaving more and more financial hardship for rich countries that are foolish enough to remain, I belive in time it won't be the UK working man bearing the financial hardship but EU working class, time will tell which of us is right.

 

There is a bit more to it than that. The EU pumps loads of money into poor economies on the basis that they send the money back when they buy EU goods. They are locked into the single market so they are obliged to buy EU goods. So effectively the subsidies that the UK and other richer nations pay in are propping up their own economies. As far as the UK is concerned they don't get as much return as nations who export more. Germany is subsidising its industries by proxy - sending money to Greece, Bulgaria and the like who can't wait to spend those subsidies on German goods.

 

The other negative for the UK is that the welfare system is much more generous than anywhere else in Europe and so it has become the destination of choice fr anyone who doesn't want to work. So in effect the UK has a double whammy. The subsidies paid in aren't returned to industry as much as Germany, Holland and France and the UK has inherited hundreds of thousands of jobless, homeless dependants from Europe.

Edited January 8, 2017 by UKPoacher

[oowee]

 

There is a bit more to it than that. The EU pumps loads of money into poor economies on the basis that they send the money back when they buy EU goods. They are locked into the single market so they are obliged to buy EU goods. So effectively the subsidies that the UK and other richer nations pay in are propping up their own economies. As far as the UK is concerned they don't get as much return as nations who export more. Germany is subsidising its industries my proxy - sending money to Greece, Bulgaria and the like who can't wait to spend those subsidies on German goods.

 

The other negative for the UK is that the welfare system is much more generous than anywhere else in Europe and so it has become the destination of choice fr anyone who doesn't want to work. So in effect the UK has a double whammy. The subsidies paid in aren't returned to industry as much as Germany, Holland and France and the UK has inherited hundreds of thousands of jobless, homeless dependants from Europe.

Also with the German economy sharing the euro currency with weaker economies makes the currency more competitive and eases their exports.

[markm]

I think someone who thinks the service industry consists of mostly pint pullers and nail painters isn't really qualified to speak on such matters.

 

The scope is so far beyond that you've practically shot yourself in the foot from the off.

I'm not worthy!

 

And how are you qualified?

 

#mrsmartypants

Edited January 8, 2017 by markm

[12gauge82]

 

There is a bit more to it than that. The EU pumps loads of money into poor economies on the basis that they send the money back when they buy EU goods. They are locked into the single market so they are obliged to buy EU goods. So effectively the subsidies that the UK and other richer nations pay in are propping up their own economies. As far as the UK is concerned they don't get as much return as nations who export more. Germany is subsidising its industries by proxy - sending money to Greece, Bulgaria and the like who can't wait to spend those subsidies on German goods.

 

The other negative for the UK is that the welfare system is much more generous than anywhere else in Europe and so it has become the destination of choice fr anyone who doesn't want to work. So in effect the UK has a double whammy. The subsidies paid in aren't returned to industry as much as Germany, Holland and France and the UK has inherited hundreds of thousands of jobless, homeless dependants from Europe.

I fully agree, I solely type on pigeon watch on my phone so tend to keep my posts short, it's also the reason I think the UK could do far better out of the EU, it's protectionism of its industries is shoring up unhealthy European businesses and the UK is paying for it for little or no reward, it amazes me that people think we're better off in.

[iano]

and the UK has inherited hundreds of thousands of jobless, homeless dependants from Europe.

 

Is this actually true?

 

We say the same about minorities here but the numbers actually don't stack up.

[McCloggie]

This one, I was highlighting the Netherlands buried their head in the sand when the nazi came marauding across Europe in the build up to ww2, the Netherlands stated they were neutral as they had during ww1 hoping the nazis would again leave them alone, they didn't and invaded anyway, the Netherlands surrender on the first day, I'm highlighting that the UK doesn't role over when others try to bully us.

 

Ahh.. Ye Olde Chestnut again. Have you even researched this my friend?

I agree the Dutch government was very naive in those days, but then again Chamberlain thought he could do business with Hitler.

Britain just had the luck not to be attached to mainland Europe,or we're all be speaking Deutsch now.

 

And if you question Dutch bravery, have you ever heard of the Raid on the Medway? You're . But we're drifting off..

[12gauge82]

 

Ahh.. Ye Olde Chestnut again. Have you even researched this my friend?

I agree the Dutch government HAD A QUITTERS MENTALITY in those days, but then again Chamberlain thought he could do business with Hitler.

Britain just had the COURAGE not to ROLL OVER LIKE SOME OF mainland Europe, THANKS TO THE UK or we're all be speaking Deutsch now.

 

And if you question Dutch bravery, have you ever heard of the Raid on the Medway? You're . But we're drifting off..

I haven't herd of the raid on the medway and I'm sure there were very brave Dutch people to, I will look it up when I have more time, thanks 🖒

Yes I have researched it, I've edited the mistakes in your post for you.

[Lloyd90]

I'm not worthy!

 

And how are you qualified?

 

#mrsmartypants

Never claimed I was, as I willingly admit I don't know what will happen. I don't make wild assumptions or state that a massive massive sector of the economy is based on nail painters and bar tenders.

Don't know what that's got to do with using hash tags either?

 

Maybe look into your #crystalball ?

[12gauge82]

Never claimed I was, as I willingly admit I don't know what will happen. I don't make wild assumptions or state that a massive massive sector of the economy is based on nail painters and bar tenders.

Don't know what that's got to do with using hash tags either?

 

Maybe look into your #crystalball ?

😂😂😂

[digger]

If I moved to Holland I don't think I'd have joined a Dutch shooting forum and belittled their country and choice of voting.

The door didn't slam when you left did it ?

[Guest stevo]

 

 

 

And if you question Dutch bravery, have you ever heard of the Raid on the Medway? You're . But we're drifting off

 

 

 

 

 

 

ahhh yes , wasn't that the one where the Dutch attacked our unmanned , laid up ships , while our king was in peace talks with your king

Edited January 8, 2017 by stevo

[McCloggie]

If I moved to Holland I don't think I'd have joined a Dutch shooting forum and belittled their country and choice of voting.

The door didn't slam when you left did it ?

I never intended to belittle anybody or anything. I love living here! I'm just trying to reason the pros and cons of leaving the EU and state some facts and comparisons. But then somebody's arrogance kicks in..

[Lloyd90]

I never intended to belittle anybody or anything. I love living here! I'm just trying to reason the pros and cons of leaving the EU and state some facts and comparisons. But then somebody's arrogance kicks in..

Genuine question, why if the UK is very much behind Holland etc in standard of living / quality of life did you leave to come live here?

 

I wonder as I was browsing other countries earlier just out of interest, I think Norway was voted number 1 and Australia number 2.

[12gauge82]

I never intended to belittle anybody or anything. I love living here! I'm just trying to reason the pros and cons of leaving the EU and state some facts and comparisons. But then somebody's arrogance kicks in..

If your referring to me I would say statment of facts, some of my comments are a little Tonge in cheek however there's a lot of truths in them to and are based in fact, you compared this country to a Jack Russell who thinks it's bigger than it is, I've pointed out we have a proud history of facing wrong doing and having the courage to do what is right rather than go with the flow out of fear, something which (no disrespect intended) the Dutch haven't always followed, they were one of, if not the most compliant invaded countries during ww2, that is fact.