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TbirdX

Essex Licensing

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    A Tale of Two Applications

     

    Person A

     

    Cert expires 07/16 and renewal notice duly arrives 04/16

     

    Forms downloaded, filled out and sent off without delay. 1 day before expiry a 6 month temp arrives.

     

    fast forward 6 months and on day of expiry another temp arrives, this time for 3 months.

     

    Person B

     

    Cert expires 04/17 and renewal arrives 01/17

     

    Forms downloaded, filled out and sent off without delay.

     

    10 days, yes just a mere ten days later, a full five year cert arrives predated to start the day the original expires.

     

    1 week after that , a doctors letter arrives demanding a £66 fee to fill out the forms the Police have sent.

     

    So my question, in two parts is..

     

     

    A) Has anyone else applied for their renewal since the start of the year and had it already

     

    and

     

    B) Does anyone else have to pay for their forms to be filled out?

     

     

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    Unless the doctor provided a FULL medical report at request of police. I would tell him to Jog on !

     

    Sooo my first question to him would be WHAT did he actually provide the police with ?

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    The doctor has, as of yet, received no payment so I assume he's supplying them nothing until he gets his cut.

     

    That's by the by, what I'd like to know is if anyone else has been through this 'new procedure' this year yet and if they have had to pay for a doctors signature.

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    My other half put her shotgun renewal in October last year as her cert expires on Monday. Not heard a thing from them.

     

    Conveniently they are now trialling not taking any phone calls at all to make the process more efficient. Pretty damn useless if you ask me.

     

     

    As for the doctor's bill, if you already have the ticket then I'd just ignore it!

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    Well I'm not sure what's going on tbh.

     

    The cert is pre-dated, so not current, pending 'further enquiries', so I assume if they don't get a reply from the doc then they will revoke it.

     

    At the end of the day, I suspect the £66 will have to be paid. Popo will say its nothing to do with them and the surgery will say that's the fee, don't pay it don't get the forms signed.

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    When I moved to Surrey from Essex (a couple of years ago) the Surrey visit took 10 days or so to arrange and the new SGC turned up a week or so later. I recently applied to join a rifle club in Hampshire. It carries out a security check on me before inviting me to come along. The club received a thumbs up from Hampshire police within a week.

     

    I feel sorry for the Essex firearms team, as they clearly aren't being resourced properly. I don't imagine they're all on a go-slow, so it's either sheer weight of numbers applying for certs, or Essex Police apply extra tests that increase the response times. Either way, it's not the people who answer the phone and visit you, but a desire higher up the chain to make it difficult to shoot.

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    If you didn't ask the Dr why should you pay ?

     

    I have just got a new rifle are you going to send me £1100 it's the same

     

     

    No, it isn't the same thing at all.

     

    Your firearm application is dependant on certain criteria being met, if it's not met you won't get your cert will you.

     

    If your local popo asked your docs for a yea or nay on your cert and they heard nothing, what do you suppose their response is likely to be? I very much doubt they'll shrug their shoulders and issue you a cert anyway.

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    Am I hearing this right 'a pre dated licence' has been issued by a force to a applicant on the basis a doctors report is required? If they don't get it then the predates licence will be revoked?

    If medical reports are required then WHY has a licence even been issued,is this just to tease the applicant into giving in and paying the doc.

    Absolute farce,an ever failing system that does nothing to reassure the general public the licensing of Firearms is in a better situation.

    Why isn't our shooting orgs taken a tuffer stance on this rediculous process,it quite clear that the present system is not fit for purposes and that the current bodies are not up to doing the job.We can't go on being punished for their constant failings.

    It quite easy all BASC or who ever can be ***** need to do is get every SGC/FAC holder to sign a petition of 'No confidence in the current system' in peticular in those that are making the decisions with this farce at the moment' Make it all public because at the moment the licensing auth are hiding behind stats. The general public do not have gun owners to fear! What they really need to fear! is incompetency within a licensing authority!

     

    How long are we the licence payers going to put up with this and how long are our shooting organisations going to let it go on.

     

    This has just been one massive knee jerk reaction that kicked of with Durham Yes Durham the force that was responsible for the Atherton being able to use a gun as his method of murder.

    In stead they hid behind lies and blamed certificate holder for withholding changes in their medical conditions.They have always had access to medical records but as part of the process only ever check up on say one in ten applicants.I have no issues with the new form,put up the fees to include or you can have them for free,they are ours after all.So why are some cash driven docs cashing in?

    Come on shooting orgs 'grow some balls and take action' Stop being dictated too and start spending our subscription wisely.You need to act now before it's too late.

    Edited by Davyo

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    If they gave you a pre date cert I wonder how they would react to a pre dated cheque.Ive heard some stupid renewal process procedures over the last 8yrs but this one is at the top.

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    Maybe we should do one of the online vote things for a vote of no confidence.

     

    Surly we would be able to get 100.000 votes ? Also am I right in thinking the government has to bring it up in parliament

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    My experience with West Mercia .

    5-1-2017 Receive notification that my renewal needs to be submitted which expires in March.

    Downloaded necessary paperwork and returned , completed on 6-1-2017.

    New certificate arrived 27 -1-2017 valid from March renewal date .

     

    Very well done West Mercia & Warwickshire Firearms Department @ Malvern.

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    The cert is pre-dated to start upon expiry of the current cert yes, but not on the basis a doctors report is required in the way you make it sound.

     

    Nothing has changed as far as the applicants health is concerned since the issue of the current cert. In fact, none of the circumstances have changed at all excepting being 5 years older. (that goes for both the applications mentioned above)

     

    Popo has asked the doctor the same questions, I assume, it asks for every applicant. The doctors, I presume, are saying it's more than before and a charge will be incurred for the time. I'm guessing shotgun certs aren't part of the NHS remit and so I can see why a charge might be applied/appropriate.

     

    I'm just trying to establish whether anyone else in Essex has had similar or if anyone has had to pay a docs fee.

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    Sorry I didn't say the cert would be revoke if med doc not sent back, you said it in post 5

    s

     

    Posted Yesterday, 02:30 AM

    Well I'm not sure what's going on tbh

     

    Your quote:The cert is pre-dated, so not current, pending 'further enquiries', so I assume if they don't get a reply from the doc then they will revoke it.

     

    What I'm stating is that this is one of many threads where authorities are performing badly and it's about time our Shooting organisation put our membership fees to good use instead of filling the pockets of directors.

    Edited by Davyo

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    Had my renewal last May,

    Put the forms in by the advised date, put my guns in local rfd a couple of days prior to existing certificate expiring, Received a temporary cert' on expiry date, left guns with RFD (you can't hold or buy expanding on a temporary cert)

    Had FEO visit couple of weeks later, no mention or Dr's or medical reports, and after 2 more weeks coterminous certificate dropped on door mat.

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    I wouldnt have any expectation of Essex Firearms or BASC finding their own **** with both hands.. after a 41 weeks wait for a straightforward FAC as an existing SGC holder having been told the wait time had halved by PCC as a follow up to his election promise I called BASC to see whether they could assist me as a member (having not wanted to pester FEO admin team) to be told 'yeah, they are busy, but it's in progress..' what a waste of time, certainly won't be renewing BASC, what a rip off for £3 of liability insurance.. FEO not being helped by having an openly anti CPO and seemingly no way to hold to account.

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    That's very interesting Scuta, thank you.

     

    Well, a condition was declared, as it was on the previous application but nothing on that list and certainly nothing that would affect a license, or, one would presume any kind of medical report beyond whatever is normal.

     

    I will print it out and pass it on. we'll see where it goes.

     

    How are you by the way? Such sad news about Colin.

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    On your application did you notify dibble of any medical conditions that may require further input from your GP?

     

    If not, I suspect that your GP is asking for payment for saying that have no concerns and for putting the marker that you have guns on you file.

     

    BASC's advice is not to pay for this, in accordance with the BMC agreement.

     

    If you have have notified the Police of a medical condition, then your GP can charge for a report to be issued.

     

     

    The cert is pre-dated to start upon expiry of the current cert yes, but not on the basis a doctors report is required in the way you make it sound.

     

    Nothing has changed as far as the applicants health is concerned since the issue of the current cert. In fact, none of the circumstances have changed at all excepting being 5 years older. (that goes for both the applications mentioned above)

     

    Popo has asked the doctor the same questions, I assume, it asks for every applicant. The doctors, I presume, are saying it's more than before and a charge will be incurred for the time. I'm guessing shotgun certs aren't part of the NHS remit and so I can see why a charge might be applied/appropriate.

     

    I'm just trying to establish whether anyone else in Essex has had similar or if anyone has had to pay a docs fee.

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    But what can you really expect BASC to do? They have no authority over Essex or any other constabulary. The simple fact is that they are over whelmed.

     

    I wouldnt have any expectation of Essex Firearms or BASC finding their own **** with both hands.. after a 41 weeks wait for a straightforward FAC as an existing SGC holder having been told the wait time had halved by PCC as a follow up to his election promise I called BASC to see whether they could assist me as a member (having not wanted to pester FEO admin team) to be told 'yeah, they are busy, but it's in progress..' what a waste of time, certainly won't be renewing BASC, what a rip off for £3 of liability insurance.. FEO not being helped by having an openly anti CPO and seemingly no way to hold to account.

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    But what can you really expect BASC to do? They have no authority over Essex or any other constabulary. The simple fact is that they are over whelmed.

     

    BASC boast that they act on members behalf and have mentioned a number of times that they are closely reviewing Essex and will hold them to account. In the case of PCC they are elected officials and should be accountable yet spout lies to deny that there is a problem... if BASC are going to do nothing they shouldn't promise otherwise and go back to selling 3 pound insurance policies for 80 quid.

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    BASC has been working closely with Essex Police to address the backlog of applications and delays. Following a meeting with the licensing team in November, Essex Police agreed to implement a new renewal process for shotgun and firearms certificate holders. Once Essex Police have undertaken the relevant background checks, and are satisfied that there are no relevant medical issues declared by the applicant, then a renewed certificate will be issued. This system will only be used in cases where the result of a risk assessment is positive. Otherwise a visit from a Firearms Enquiry Officer will be required. However this will only occur in a minority of cases.

     

    The change in procedure, which took effect from 1st January 2017, means that the Firearms Licensing Department should no longer need to issue temporary permits as a matter of course. This will considerably reduce the bureaucracy and free up resources to tackle the backlog. This will improve efficiency and the service Essex Police provides to those who shoot.

     

    BASC will continues to assist Essex Police in implementing best practice. A further meeting is scheduled to take place next week.

     

    Christopher

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    So, going on this, I should get my cert in May, once my current S7 expires, if not sooner.

     

    We'll see.

     

    BASC has been working closely with Essex Police to address the backlog of applications and delays. Following a meeting with the licensing team in November, Essex Police agreed to implement a new renewal process for shotgun and firearms certificate holders. Once Essex Police have undertaken the relevant background checks, and are satisfied that there are no relevant medical issues declared by the applicant, then a renewed certificate will be issued. This system will only be used in cases where the result of a risk assessment is positive. Otherwise a visit from a Firearms Enquiry Officer will be required. However this will only occur in a minority of cases.

    The change in procedure, which took effect from 1st January 2017, means that the Firearms Licensing Department should no longer need to issue temporary permits as a matter of course. This will considerably reduce the bureaucracy and free up resources to tackle the backlog. This will improve efficiency and the service Essex Police provides to those who shoot.

    BASC will continues to assist Essex Police in implementing best practice. A further meeting is scheduled to take place next week.

    Christopher

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