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Fowling rules and regs


wildfowler.250
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Can't help but think that it seems crazy that between Scotland and Englad,(apologies as I don't know a huge deal about fowling in Wales/N.I) there's differences in the rules and regs for fowling.

 

 

For example: Scotland, no fowling on a Sunday. Just hop the border and in England you can. But only in some counties?

 

 

And in Scotland, our steel for wetland/lead shot rule makes far more sense than in England.

 

 

Do these things ever get reviewed? And why aren't we all singing from the same hymn sheet?

 

 

As a side note, I always thought it was good for the birds to get a 'rest' day on a Sunday. But then again, a lot of folk work Saturdays so maybe it's a good idea to be able to fowl both days of the weekend.

 

 

Anyway, I just think it should be the same both countries!

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BASC know all about it!......The English and Welsh species specific element of the lead shot ban was bought in under Swift and Harradines watch at BASC...........as Swift went on to chair what turned out to be the 'anti lead' Lead Ammunition Group..............no real surprise there then!

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Guest cookoff013

stateside they have game wardens to check everything. not too sure if i want a local bobby popping by and to check if i have the right shot, as there are many.

he wouldnt have a clue.

 

cook.

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For me, the problem with issues like this is that, when you open the can of worms you have no control over what happens.

 

Politics being what it is, we`d most likely start off trying to bring Scotland into line with England/Wales and end up with Englan/ Wales coming into line with Scotland.

 

I don`t want to risk losing the right to go fowling on a Sunday in England.

 

Wildfowler250, could I respectfully ask what you are going to suggest to BASC as a surefire plan for absolutely garaunteeing that we don`t end up worse off than before we started?

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For me, the problem with issues like this is that, when you open the can of worms you have no control over what happens.

 

Politics being what it is, we`d most likely start off trying to bring Scotland into line with England/Wales and end up with Englan/ Wales coming into line with Scotland.

 

I don`t want to risk losing the right to go fowling on a Sunday in England.

 

Wildfowler250, could I respectfully ask what you are going to suggest to BASC as a surefire plan for absolutely garaunteeing that we don`t end up worse off than before we started?

There's no gurantees but when have we ever had our shooting improved rather than restricted? It would be nice to see something proactive being done for our sport rather than it gradually getting tighter and tighter.

 

 

The general licence gets reviewed yearly but what about the wildfowling side of things?

 

 

True it's fine as it is. And it could be worse. But it could also be better...

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There's no gurantees but when have we ever had our shooting improved rather than restricted? It would be nice to see something proactive being done for our sport rather than it gradually getting tighter and tighter.

 

 

The general licence gets reviewed yearly but what about the wildfowling side of things?

 

 

True it's fine as it is. And it could be worse. But it could also be better...

 

In a perfect world that would be ideal, BUT. A few of our quarry species like the pochard are not doing very well , despite being on the other hand birds like barnacle geese are doing very well. An yearly review could end up with species coming onto and out of the quarry list every year. One year pochard still on the list , but the next year protected and keeping up with the changes would not be easy. The other factor is that in the half light many of our duck species look very similar . Hand on heart how many of us could tell the difference between a pochard or tufted after sunset. At the moment almost all the duck ( with the exception of shielduck which are pretty distinctive ) we are likely to meet on the marsh are on the quarry list so that problem does not happen. True we do have several similar species of geese , but geese have the advantage of calling a lot , helping with ID.

 

In the future doubtless the quarry list will change in response to bird population changes but , we have a system that by and large works at the moment , we tinker with at our peril.

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Nationally and internationally, Curlew are decreasing. The next Wildlife and Countryside Act will be a battle to retain what we have rather than acquiring or regaining quarry species.

The first shots are already being fired - e.g. the Packham petition to stop the shooting of Snipe, Woodcock and Golden Plover.

Anser2 may know better but I think the last new wildfowl species to go on the quarry list was the Canada Goose in the 1954 Act (on the same day that Brent were protected).

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Very true. Id like to see curlew back on as well as there loads about but that's just me. Maybe sit and wait quietly for now. But the whole thing does make me wonder how proactive clubs like basc/sacs ect are in these matters.

I am not so sure I would like to see Curlew back on the list , as a bird for the table they were o k during September but after that the meat smelt of mud when they started to feed on the estuary and more or less became inedible , good fun shooting Curlew but that was a completely different era and nowadays I don't think we would get away with purely shooting Curlew for fun , same with Brent , what would you do with them once they were shot ? . with the abundance of game about now I am sure there are better birds to eat than Curlew and Brent Geese.

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I would have thought that Brent would not be so bad now that the graze inland for most of their time here.

 

I am not so sure I would like to see Curlew back on the list , as a bird for the table they were o k during September but after that the meat smelt of mud when they started to feed on the estuary and more or less became inedible , good fun shooting Curlew but that was a completely different era and nowadays I don't think we would get away with purely shooting Curlew for fun , same with Brent , what would you do with them once they were shot ? . with the abundance of game about now I am sure there are better birds to eat than Curlew and Brent Geese.

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I was only a year old in 1954 so cant remember much about the bill. LOL. But it seems only problem birds get onto the shooting list these days and then they bypass the quarry list and go straight onto the pest list, ie Eygptian geese. Our major problem when time comes around from the next review of the quarry list is global warming. It exerting changes on some of our quarry species so they are no longer coming to the UK in the numbers we saw in the past. Mallard and white fronts are obvious species. I have friends in Sweden that tell me 30 years ago very few mallard were present in their country in mid winter , now many of the rivers are unfrozen all winter and large numbers of mallard stay on them instead of migrating to milder areas of Europe like the UK. But Global warming has a second pressure on our waterfowl.have to contend with. many areas that were too cold to grow crops or run fish farms are now becoming suitable and wetlands being drained to do so so some of the breeding areas are vanishing others becoming more disturbed , but we can only hope that our waterfowl will move further north as other suitable areas become available to them. But that situation cannot got on for ever.

 

On the plus side goose populations as a whole are doing very well and let us hope that we can keep feral greylag goose off the pest list and there is a risk that pink feet might be added if their numbers keep growing. Maybe an extended season to March 1st would help to keep numbers down. To my mind that would be a better option to putting them on the pest list. Wildfowling clubs have some responsibility here. No true wildfowler wants to shoot big bags of pinks , but we are heading for a problem if we do not increase the national bag of pinks and feral greylags. Some clubs have low bag limits and its time these were relaxed a little. Barnacle geese are a possible new quarry perhaps in specific areas where they are causing damage to crops. Another possibility is for BASC to reintroduce the mallard rearing scheme. We are being hit by a double wammy for mallard. Not only is global warming causing short stopping the recent change to non toxic shot for waterfowl has resulted in many game shoots no longer putting down mallard. In the past a lot of those reared mallard found their way into the wild population , boosting our breeding stock. I Suspect teal will become a more important quarry in the future. Already i shoot far more than I used to 40 years ago as more birds are staying in the UK than in the past and gadwall are likely to become a more important feature in the bag in the too.


I would have thought that Brent would not be so bad now that the graze inland for most of their time here.

 

I have eaten brent shot under licence and they are ok, but there is surprisingly little meat on them for the size of the bird.The trouble with brent is they tend too have all or nothing breeding seasons. When the yanks opened a season on them 30 years ago on the east Coast the population they had a cold winter that year and the flocks dropped by over a third in one winter and the season had to be closed until numbers built up again and then reopened with a small bag limit.

Edited by anser2
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I am not so sure I would like to see Curlew back on the list , as a bird for the table they were o k during September but after that the meat smelt of mud when they started to feed on the estuary and more or less became inedible , good fun shooting Curlew but that was a completely different era and nowadays I don't think we would get away with purely shooting Curlew for fun , same with Brent , what would you do with them once they were shot ? . with the abundance of game about now I am sure there are better birds to eat than Curlew and Brent Geese.

I've heard they were good to eat but with all these things, it depends what they've been feeding on as mentioned. Same can be said for wigeon!

I was only a year old in 1954 so cant remember much about the bill. LOL. But it seems only problem birds get onto the shooting list these days and then they bypass the quarry list and go straight onto the pest list, ie Eygptian geese. Our major problem when time comes around from the next review of the quarry list is global warming. It exerting changes on some of our quarry species so they are no longer coming to the UK in the numbers we saw in the past. Mallard and white fronts are obvious species. I have friends in Sweden that tell me 30 years ago very few mallard were present in their country in mid winter , now many of the rivers are unfrozen all winter and large numbers of mallard stay on them instead of migrating to milder areas of Europe like the UK. But Global warming has a second pressure on our waterfowl.have to contend with. many areas that were too cold to grow crops or run fish farms are now becoming suitable and wetlands being drained to do so so some of the breeding areas are vanishing others becoming more disturbed , but we can only hope that our waterfowl will move further north as other suitable areas become available to them. But that situation cannot got on for ever.

 

On the plus side goose populations as a whole are doing very well and let us hope that we can keep feral greylag goose off the pest list and there is a risk that pink feet might be added if their numbers keep growing. Maybe an extended season to March 1st would help to keep numbers down. To my mind that would be a better option to putting them on the pest list. Wildfowling clubs have some responsibility here. No true wildfowler wants to shoot big bags of pinks , but we are heading for a problem if we do not increase the national bag of pinks and feral greylags. Some clubs have low bag limits and its time these were relaxed a little. Barnacle geese are a possible new quarry perhaps in specific areas where they are causing damage to crops. Another possibility is for BASC to reintroduce the mallard rearing scheme. We are being hit by a double wammy for mallard. Not only is global warming causing short stopping the recent change to non toxic shot for waterfowl has resulted in many game shoots no longer putting down mallard. In the past a lot of those reared mallard found their way into the wild population , boosting our breeding stock. I Suspect teal will become a more important quarry in the future. Already i shoot far more than I used to 40 years ago as more birds are staying in the UK than in the past and gadwall are likely to become a more important feature in the bag in the too.

 

I have eaten brent shot under licence and they are ok, but there is surprisingly little meat on them for the size of the bird.The trouble with brent is they tend too have all or nothing breeding seasons. When the yanks opened a season on them 30 years ago on the east Coast the population they had a cold winter that year and the flocks dropped by over a third in one winter and the season had to be closed until numbers built up again and then reopened with a small bag limit.

 

Interesting read. A mallard reintroduction scheme would be interesting. A local shoot must have put mallard down one year and you did notice a difference. But as I was saying to someone recently, they disappeared by the next year. I don't think many hung about or more likely, didn't breed successfully!

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I would have thought that Brent would not be so bad now that the graze inland for most of their time here.

 

Let me know when you would like to try a couple of Brent and I'll get you a couple ( legally as I've a license till end of April ) 😉

 

People claimed Barnacle Geese was/are not good eating but when i regularly shot them on Islay to me they was/are as good as any Pink Greylag Whitefront or Canada goose.

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I would have thought that Brent would not be so bad now that the graze inland for most of their time here.

 

Compared with North Norfolk and down your way around the Blackwater estuary we have very few Brent , it would be rare if at any one time there would be a flock of more than 20 and they would spend more time on the estuary around the mussel beds than on the grazing marshes , strange really, as when we used to take fishing parties out we would see them in big numbers sitting out at sea , then they would be flying up North and down South and giving our little area of natural habitat a wide berth , I wonder why ? , might be our reputation :lol:

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I have eaten brent shot under licence and they are ok, but there is surprisingly little meat on them for the size of the bird.The trouble with brent is they tend too have all or nothing breeding seasons. When the yanks opened a season on them 30 years ago on the east Coast the population they had a cold winter that year and the flocks dropped by over a third in one winter and the season had to be closed until numbers built up again and then reopened with a small bag limit.



A limited season perhaps; one month long? They can be a significant local problem.



Yes, I know that they are pretty much all or nothing when it comes to breeding.

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  • 3 weeks later...

There's no gurantees but when have we ever had our shooting improved rather than restricted? It would be nice to see something proactive being done for our sport rather than it gradually getting tighter and tighter.

 

 

The general licence gets reviewed yearly but what about the wildfowling side of things?

 

 

True it's fine as it is. And it could be worse. But it could also be better...

Just to let you know we are at this point very active in trying to be proactive as you put it !!

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In a perfect world that would be ideal, BUT. A few of our quarry species like the pochard are not doing very well , despite being on the other hand birds like barnacle geese are doing very well. An yearly review could end up with species coming onto and out of the quarry list every year. One year pochard still on the list , but the next year protected and keeping up with the changes would not be easy. The other factor is that in the half light many of our duck species look very similar . Hand on heart how many of us could tell the difference between a pochard or tufted after sunset. At the moment almost all the duck ( with the exception of shielduck which are pretty distinctive ) we are likely to meet on the marsh are on the quarry list so that problem does not happen. True we do have several similar species of geese , but geese have the advantage of calling a lot , helping with ID.

 

In the future doubtless the quarry list will change in response to bird population changes but , we have a system that by and large works at the moment , we tinker with at our peril.

At last WLC meeting ( November it was asked for BASC to back removing the Sunday shooting of wildfowling law in those countys that have a no shoot ban on Sunday ! A postive move , I wait to see what happens .

Edited by riptide
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