islandgun Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Gus my 18 month Springer and first gundog ranges too far when out, he will drop (sit) on the whistle,and recall very well, but he is hunting/running out to 15m most of the time and would forge ahead if given the chance, he will turn as soon as i whistle but his enthusiasm keeps him pushing the boundaries, im beginning to think that he is now waiting for the whistle and if he doesnt hear it, pushes that bit further, All this is done at 90mph ! any suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 I am no expert but to keep my cocker quartering close I hunt her, keep turning her on the whistle and drop a ball at my feet for her to find. My theory is she associates "good things happen at or around my feet" Also I try and hunt into the wind which makes dogs hunt a tighter pattern. Only my two peneth but as I say I am far from an expert 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Hide stuff close to you so that he learns the good stuff is found near you Alternatively sell Gus to me lol he's gorgeous! Edited February 28, 2017 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 I am no expert but to keep my cocker quartering close I hunt her, keep turning her on the whistle and drop a ball at my feet for her to find. My theory is she associates "good things happen at or around my feet" Also I try and hunt into the wind which makes dogs hunt a tighter pattern. Only my two peneth but as I say I am far from an expert Thanks ips looks like a plan Iv'e noticed the hunting into the wind so will follow your advice Hide stuff close to you so that he learns the good stuff is found near you Alternatively sell Gus to me lol he's gorgeous! hi bigbird sell gus ! I would be kicked out and living on the streets all for a few quid, plus we only have one street, I will try hiding stuff close by though any suggestions what constitutes good stuff ? we will be coming down to your area later in the summer so will PM for some training exercisers, (and for the dog) cheers IG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Good stuff is whatever turns your dog on. In my case its her ball but edible treats, favourite toy that sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Mine do the same, but you just have to keep talking to them or using the whistle to turn or stop them - They will always want to be 100 miles ahead because they're excited and the fun's over there. As he gets older and more used to it, he'll hunt in close (although you than have the hassle of the dog that won't move 10 feet from you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Basically I don't think Gus knows the difference between going for a run and training/work. If he's allowed to run as far as he likes on a walk on the beach etc how's he to know he's not supposed to do it when working Edited February 28, 2017 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Mine will hunt close if I give a hand gesture to hunt but strangely if I give a verbal to get on she will pull out more. Edited March 1, 2017 by ips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Thats great, thanks ips,.. gus is very happy to hunt in fact its the most important thing to him, Where i live is alive with rabbits and he spends all his time going from one hole to the next at great speed, maybe this is a problem but it does keep him involved and close in, its more when we are in an uninteresting place that he is tempted to range further to look for more rabbits/snipe etc, also when we are going down wind (as you pointed out) fatcatsplat That is my take on it, I do encourage him when he stays close by and he responds really well to encouragement, I guess that he doesnt know why we are there.. "yet" and that when we actually go shooting things will fall into place but when that happens i dont want to be calling him back all the time if there is an alternative. bigbird He never goes out for just a walk or allowed to run where he likes, and is always being asked to keep close, re-called, stopped, or retrieving and its the keeping him under control with this constant barrage of whistles that's the problem.......... perhaps I should let the dog see the rabbit anyway thanks for the advice everyone, always appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Islandgun If he pulls out in uninteresting places why not make it more interesting by dropping dummies or balls . You may have been down that route so apologies if I am stating the obvious. Ps It all goes out the window anyway as soon as you get into birds 😁 Edited February 28, 2017 by ips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) IMO, a spaniel has one of two mindsets when you cast it off, it's either going to hunt for you because it's been trained to, or it's going to hunt for itself until you tell it otherwise (i.e. you pip it on the whistle) in which case you'll always be on the whistle. If you want to establish a beat for the dog to work, put your whistle in your pocket. When he goes too far out, go an get him... calmly and don't go tearing after him... you'll likely fall over and get angry! Either put the lead on him and walk him back to where you would have liked him to turn, or pick him up and take him back. Sit him up and walk back to where you were when he should have turned to create the angle you want him to come across you at and pip him across with your whistle (then put it back in your pocket). If he understands the whistle, he'll at least come to you, you need then to try and encourage him across you to develop a pattern but if he takes a forward bite on the other side do the same. This is obviously a fairly abbreviated version and doesn't take cognisance of the various situations that can arise and things go wrong but it's a start. It can be a slow process but you'll end up with the whistle being your backup to steer and not a necessity for you to have any kind of control. Chucking things around your feet is fine for conditioning pups to stay close and can be a useful refresher but it sounds like you are passed the stage of it achieving what you want. Edited February 28, 2017 by WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 15mtrs.......would never shoot anythin if my dog was as close as that.. ...lol its nice to have a wonderful trained dog but if it isnt allowed to go find things ( within reason) you wont get much shootin now it all depends where your at as well if for beatin on a shoot close is what you need due to quantity of game..if rough shootin the dog needs to be allowed to hunt settle for a good distance for what your using the dog for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 WGD, Thanks for that, That is the problem he doesnt know why he is hunting yet as he has not seen the end result, The peep and turn does have the required result as he mainly stays just within the advised range, from the books i have read and advise for others on here i believed it was desirable for the dog to hunt close by and thought the way to achieve this was to instil by whistle this boundary ie for him to realise that going to far resulted in a turn or at worst a recall, As i alluded to earlier perhaps i need a partner on the gun to shoot at the bolting rabbit to show gus the point of this partnership. millrace. Also excellent points and refreshing to see a practical approach, yes your right, its horses for courses, My reasoning for having Gus was first as a family pet, secondly as a companion for me to wander the hills and sand dunes for woodcock and rabbit, with several hours a week waiting for ducks and geese to flight in the dark, (perhaps we should have got a Lab but we wanted a Springer), so no formal shooting or beating for Gus, So in short i need a dog that is well behaved (which he is) that hunts (which he does) but mostly I would like to do the right thing by the dog because he is amazingly smart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think you have an excellent dog for Your needs.....stop trying to get a field trial standard and enjoy what you have achieved the reward comes when they flush the woodcock or rabbit to much is put on this "look at my perfect dog" bla bla bla i want a dog that hunts bring back what i shoot makes me laugh makes me shout (still my fault tho) looks despairing at me when i miss knowing she did her bit like you say a companion ......thats what you got put the books away and enjoy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think you have an excellent dog for Your needs.....stop trying to get a field trial standard and enjoy what you have achieved the reward comes when they flush the woodcock or rabbit to much is put on this "look at my perfect dog" bla bla bla i want a dog that hunts bring back what i shoot makes me laugh makes me shout (still my fault tho) looks despairing at me when i miss knowing she did her bit like you say a companion ......thats what you got put the books away and enjoy..... well said fella and cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malmick Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think you have an excellent dog for Your needs.....stop trying to get a field trial standard and enjoy what you have achieved the reward comes when they flush the woodcock or rabbit to much is put on this "look at my perfect dog" bla bla bla i want a dog that hunts bring back what i shoot makes me laugh makes me shout (still my fault tho) looks despairing at me when i miss knowing she did her bit like you say a companion ......thats what you got put the books away and enjoy..... Now that's just made my day and made me feel a lot happier. I agree very much with what you say, particularly enjoying what the dog can do and shouldering the responsibility for shortfalls. Cheers, Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustaff Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 depends if you want him to beat with or pick up with two different disciplines unfortunately springers cant do both i find i pick up with mine my wife beats with hers two totally diferent dogs to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Basically I don't think Gus knows the difference between going for a run and training/work. If he's allowed to run as far as he likes on a walk on the beach etc how's he to know he's not supposed to do it when working That's a good question, and one that too many owner/trainers probably forget to ask themselves. The dog needs to know with absolute certainty when it's 'under orders' and when it's not. Always wear a particular jacket or always carry a stick when training - whatever - and make a point of wearing something else or going empty handed when just taking the dog for a run. It's surprising how quickly the dog will start to know the score. Also, similar to the adage that a barrister should NEVER EVER ask a question of a witness in court that he or she (the barrister) doesn't already know the answer to, a trainer of a young dog should never issue a command that he or she doesn't know can be enforced. So basically that means keeping commands and training separate from a walk in the park - at least until one is 95% certain that the dog will comply without any mind of a scene. The problem, as we all know of course, is that there's always the temptation to 'practice' with the dog every time we take it out. Dangerous..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Ignore my last post. "That is the problem he doesnt know why he is hunting yet as he has not seen the end result." Well once you have a dog under command, which it sounds like you do, there's nothing like proper, real work to mature it and bring it on. The harder the work and the more of it the better. If I were you, I'd start ASAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 I'm not as experienced a spaniel trainer as some on here but some good advice above and it will also depend on the dog itself.which advice will work best While millrace is spot on 15m is fine for a rough shooting dog (as long as spot on stop and recall whistles) generally as dogs get older and figure out wot hunting is all about and get on some live scent/game they will start to pull further and further infront. So if u have the time and inclination it might be worth trying to get it slightly tighter before it starts on game as usually pretty hard after it knows the score. My dogs tend to get wilder and wilder as the season goes on then its back to basics at this time of year 1 thing that is a bit more subtle but will depend on the dog is start to tun ur body more, even for the side turns, so when u want to turn it left pip it and really turn ur shoulder away from it, hopefully in time it will beginn to notice ur shoulder turn without 'piping' it and turn itself so u can turn ur shoulder less and less until it just becones a small wave ur hand.. So when it gets too far infront turn to face the oppisate direction and it should start coming towards u, u can then turn back praise it and cast it to a side. if that makes sense Seen another good trick at a training ground, the trainer mowed lines in the long grass the width he wants the dogs to hunt at (say 10m for arguments sake) so a young dog will naturally tend to turn back into the long grass when it comes to the short mowed areas and gets used to hunting a 10m strip. Doesn't help u thou for a dog pulling infront I think some of the FT spaniel boys do similar and i sort of adapted it for my pointer and it did work for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thanks Retson, My thinking as well, i think I have to play it by ear and shoot a rabbit or two and work on retrieving Scotslad Ive been doing the turning on the whistle but will see if i can get him to turn without, he does often look at me, so will try turning then, he does fly back and forth in zig zags now because he knows he shouldnt go too far and like i say does everything at 90mph and it this enthusiasm that i dont want to inhibit, I guess he will contain himself as he gets older and more focused thanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) So far as rough shooting and a bit of beating goes 15m should be fine if that's what you want to do but if you are picking up then without question some of the best dogs at putting runners and pricked birds in the bag are bordering on being out of control. Many people will say don't introduce a dog to game too early but nothing is worse than the odd scent here and there for making a dog pull. If the birds and scents are everywhere they have no need to clear off. You don't see many keepers at gundog training and I know plenty that can beat and pick up with theirs. Guess it boils down to what and where the dog will be working. Good luck with it. Edited March 10, 2017 by Gillaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Cheers Gillaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 may be he thinks if the game is not close its out further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 may be he thinks if the game is not close its out further. you could well have a point.... cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.