Bakerboy stand for BASC Council

[oxfordfowler]

I have just posted this on another thread. So thought it only fair to repeat my question on the Wildfowling section of PW.

Well done for standing Terry - I wish you all the very best in the election.

So you want my (and many others) vote. I have a question for you.

When I look at the members of the BASC Council as it stands wildfowling is badly under represented. It appears to me that BASC has forgotten it's (WAGBI) roots.

If successful - What do you intend to do to further and protect the sport of Wildfowling and the Wildfowling members?.

ATB

OXF

[Kalahari]

Actually I believe Terry will try and support all forms of sporting shooting, and that would include wildfowling, surely if you become a council member that is your remit. I am afraid that I appear to be the only "wildfowler" standing this time round and I do understand many of the problems and frustrations felt by wildfowlers. Regrettably you can't vote for me.

 

Best wishes,

 

David.

[oxfordfowler]

Thanks for your input Kalahari (David) - I would have posed the same question to you however "Regrettably you can't vote for me."

 

You are right about the remit of council members. But as a wildfowler I do not feel well represented at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

PS. Terry will be getting my vote. David - Good luck in the election.

[bakerboy]

Many thanks for your support.

All I can say at the moment is "if" I am successful and elected I will strive to do everything in my power to support all forms of shooting.

A lot of information will have to be taken.

[Reabrook]

Supporting all forms of shooting may well be the remit of those on council but it doesn't appear to work like that. To fully support Wildfowling you need to be a Wildfowler. Fowlers have suffered the most at the hands of the legislators with the loss of everything from quarry species to guns and ammunition etc and now appears to be the buffer between our enemies and game shooting. Even now BASC seem loathe to face up to the current threats Fowlers face with NE Consents being one example.

We've had Fowlers stand in the past but failed to elect them. Apathy and relying on those who don't see the full picture may yet prove our undoing

[bakerboy]

Kalahari is a wildfowler.

 

You will have to live in Wales to vote for David, but maybe if you have links with wildfowlers groups collectively you could get behind David to get him elected.

I have known David for a number of years he is your man.

[hedd-wyn]

Supporting all forms of shooting may well be the remit of those on council but it doesn't appear to work like that. To fully support Wildfowling you need to be a Wildfowler. Fowlers have suffered the most at the hands of the legislators with the loss of everything from quarry species to guns and ammunition etc and now appears to be the buffer between our enemies and game shooting. Even now BASC seem loathe to face up to the current threats Fowlers face with NE Consents being one example.

We've had Fowlers stand in the past but failed to elect them. Apathy and relying on those who don't see the full picture may yet prove our undoing

Do you know what, I was about to start a thread asking why some wildfowlers felt they weren't being fully supported by BASC. I noticed a few members have bought it up recently. But you seem to have summed it up pretty well.

 

I've just joined the local wildfowling club & deficate my shooting fully to wildfowling after deciding to knock game shooting on the head. So as you would expect was a little bit concerned with some of the comments on here recently.

 

Atb

 

Hedd

[panoma1]

Do you know what, I was about to start a thread asking why some wildfowlers felt they weren't being fully supported by BASC. I noticed a few members have bought it up recently. But you seem to have summed it up pretty well.

I've just joined the local wildfowling club & deficate my shooting fully to wildfowling after deciding to knock game shooting on the head. So as you would expect was a little bit concerned with some of the comments on here recently.

Atb

Hedd

"Deficate?".........Bit of a typo there lol!..........But surprisingly accurate when talking about BASC and NE consents!

[andrewluke]

is it normal for wildfowling club committee members to be omitted from discussions about their consents between BASC and NE/NRW???

[oxfordfowler]

services to wildfowlers

 

 

There are numerous experienced wildfowlers within BASC council, BASC head office, regional and country staff. Together we provide a unique range of services. The Wildfowling Department should be your first port of call for FREE advice when any issue arises relating to your wildfowling, whether as an individual or as a club. In the unlikely event that we cannot help you directly, we will certainly find someone who can.

 

Our services include:

 

To individual wildfowlers

•The BASC wildfowling permit scheme

•General advice about wildfowling

•Advice on lead-alternatives

•Advice on joining a local wildfowling club

 

To wildfowling clubs

•Advice on club management, membership and recruitment

•Advice on the negotiation of a wildfowling lease

•Advice on foreshore and marsh within a designated site (ASSI, SSSI, SPA)

•Advice on website creation

•Advice on grants

•Advice on funding land purchases

•Help on saltmarsh management (ie. creation of scrapes, Spartina management)

•Guidance on Health and Safety and risk assessments

•Help with our Child Protection Policy

•Problems with animal rights activists

•Advice on setting up a shooting returns system

•Help on responding to an estuary consultation

•Help on local plans for flood defences

 

Our ongoing commitment to wildfowling clubs includes:

•Organisation of the bi-annual national wildfowling conference and numerous wildfowling evenings and events throughout the UK

•Assisting clubs in the lease renewal process on Crown Estate foreshore on 80 sites across 700km foreshore in England, Wales and NI

•Annual receipt and analysis of bag returns for Crown Estate and non-Crown Estate wildfowling sites (in liason with Research Dept.)

•Wildfowling-related discussions with government agencies and other shooting and conservation organisations

•Annual production of the BASC Wildfowling Permit Scheme booklet

•Attendance at various Game Fairs, Country Shows and BASC Roadshows throughout the year

•Representation on coastal forums and in responses to estuary management consultations

Oh Dear Terry - You are not even elected yet but you are already quoting the BASC party line. I suggest you ask a few wildfowling clubs about "Our ongoing commitment to wildfowling clubs includes:". These are some of the issues that are causing so much disquiet within wildfowling.

Edited March 3, 2017 by oxfordfowler

[Kalahari]

If I am fortunate enough to be elected, I do understand a lot about the problems facing wildfowlers, an example is the varying rules on lead shot, (In my opinion the Scottish model is better) but I wouldn't pretend to understand them all. My club's problems might not be your club's problems! However I do feel that the wildfowlers are some of the last real guardians of a lot of endangered wetland and wading birds and we need to make sure more people understand this. As an aside if I am elected I will not focus solely on Welsh wildfowling problems but try and look at them as they effect the whole UK.

 

David.

[andrewluke]

If I am fortunate enough to be elected, I do understand a lot about the problems facing wildfowlers, an example is the varying rules on lead shot, (In my opinion the Scottish model is better) but I wouldn't pretend to understand them all. My club's problems might not be your club's problems! However I do feel that the wildfowlers are some of the last real guardians of a lot of endangered wetland and wading birds and we need to make sure more people understand this. As an aside if I am elected I will not focus solely on Welsh wildfowling problems but try and look at them as they effect the whole UK.

 

David.

 

lead shot is the least of wildfowlers worries,the way BASC is going wildfowlers will have nowhere to use non toxic shot!

[wildfowler.250]

 

You are right about the remit of council members. But as a wildfowler I do not feel well represented at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree. Thought about doing this myself. Very underrepresented in my opinion

 

lead shot is the least of wildfowlers worries,the way BASC is going wildfowlers will have nowhere to use non toxic shot!

Expanding ground is definitely the way forward but not overly straightforward

[Kalahari]

I didn't say lead shot was the most important problem, it was just an example that was simple to quote.

 

David.

[andrewluke]

Agree. Thought about doing this myself. Very underrepresented in my opinion

 

Expanding ground is definitely the way forward but not overly straightforward

it's not about expanding ground,it's about BASC dealing with consents/leases(club committee members not allowed to attend) and agreeing to no shooting of teal,pintail or wigeon etc.

[wildfowler.250]

and agreeing to no shooting of teal,pintail or wigeon etc.

I'd have kittens! ridiculous

[mudpatten]

Oxfordfowler,

 

I hope you won`t mind my raisisng a couple of points.

 

Let me start by saying that BASC has some huge flaws and frequently makes mistakes.

 

However,you state that wildfowling "...is badly represented on BASC Council" and "...BASC has forgotten it`s Wagbi roots."

 

You seem to have missed the point that wildfowling is badly represented on Council because the fowling community itself has consistently failed to vote for the strongest fowling candidates, in fact it has often failed to vote at all. That being so, I would respectfully suggest that it is the fault of the fowling community who constantly fail to grasp the point that it is BASC Council that steers the direction taken by BASC. No strong fowling presence means that the ship will veer off towards other more strongly represented branches of the sport. This is democracy in action. It is not some eveil conspiracy hatched by wicked and faceless antifowlers to do down the sport. We are reaping the harvest we have sown - or failed to sow.

 

You then, quite incredibly, critiscize a candidate for having the temerity to actually highlight the huge amount that BASC does for fowling in a long list of positive points by saying that he`s already quoting the Basc party line. Of course he is! It has a long and proud record of success that folwers need to be constantly reminded about.

 

I recently attended the BASC Wildfowling Conference and the preceeding WLC open meeting where I was pleased to hear much of the disquiet of which you speak put into context.

 

There is no plan to break away from BASC. There is still confidence in the WLC `s ability to effectively advise Council. A small handful of clubs are having problems with their consents and BASC is working hard towards solving these issues. Many other clubs have expressed pefectly understandable concerns about what might happen with consents in a worse case scenario.

 

All the BASC staff speakers were applauded at the end of their talks and there were no reasoned critiscisms from the floor at the end of the morning session.

 

Collectively, fowlers need to fully grasp how BASC works and engage with the process. We also need to cease starting unfounded rumours about BASC`s imagined shortcomings, the real ones are bad enough,and deal with actual issues and not the invented ones.

 

I was hearbroken recently when speaking to a young newcomer to the sport who came out with a stream of vitriolic hate directed towards Basc. All of which was utter nonesense and none of it was true. It turns out that he`d come to this conclusion from talking to older fowlers although he`d never actually dealt with BASC himself.

 

Where BASC deserves it, beat them publicly with a big stick, but this pernicious drip, drip, drip of poison into the minds of the future standard bearers of the sport will be the death of it.

[Kalahari]

Thankyou for a very sensible reasoned post.

 

David.

[holloway]

Oxfordfowler,

 

I hope you won`t mind my raisisng a couple of points.

 

Let me start by saying that BASC has some huge flaws and frequently makes mistakes.

 

However,you state that wildfowling "...is badly represented on BASC Council" and "...BASC has forgotten it`s Wagbi roots."

 

You seem to have missed the point that wildfowling is badly represented on Council because the fowling community itself has consistently failed to vote for the strongest fowling candidates, in fact it has often failed to vote at all. That being so, I would respectfully suggest that it is the fault of the fowling community who constantly fail to grasp the point that it is BASC Council that steers the direction taken by BASC. No strong fowling presence means that the ship will veer off towards other more strongly represented branches of the sport. This is democracy in action. It is not some eveil conspiracy hatched by wicked and faceless antifowlers to do down the sport. We are reaping the harvest we have sown - or failed to sow.

 

You then, quite incredibly, critiscize a candidate for having the temerity to actually highlight the huge amount that BASC does for fowling in a long list of positive points by saying that he`s already quoting the Basc party line. Of course he is! It has a long and proud record of success that folwers need to be constantly reminded about.

 

I recently attended the BASC Wildfowling Conference and the preceeding WLC open meeting where I was pleased to hear much of the disquiet of which you speak put into context.

 

There is no plan to break away from BASC. There is still confidence in the WLC `s ability to effectively advise Council. A small handful of clubs are having problems with their consents and BASC is working hard towards solving these issues. Many other clubs have expressed pefectly understandable concerns about what might happen with consents in a worse case scenario.

 

All the BASC staff speakers were applauded at the end of their talks and there were no reasoned critiscisms from the floor at the end of the morning session.

 

Collectively, fowlers need to fully grasp how BASC works and engage with the process. We also need to cease starting unfounded rumours about BASC`s imagined shortcomings, the real ones are bad enough,and deal with actual issues and not the invented ones.

 

I was hearbroken recently when speaking to a young newcomer to the sport who came out with a stream of vitriolic hate directed towards Basc. All of which was utter nonesense and none of it was true. It turns out that he`d come to this conclusion from talking to older fowlers although he`d never actually dealt with BASC himself.

 

Where BASC deserves it, beat them publicly with a big stick, but this pernicious drip, drip, drip of poison into the minds of the future standard bearers of the sport will be the death of it.

Very well put , if people are unhappy with BASC walk away from it and stop moaning.!

[panoma1]

Very well put , if people are unhappy with BASC walk away from it and stop moaning.!

Quite the opposite actually! Critism is healthy! It is not moaning to speak out if you feel something is not right! Point it out, keep the pressure on and work to change things.......but from within!

 

BASC is not above criticism, but is a big player in the future of our sport...... if you are a shooter, walking away is not an option!

[Kalahari]

BASC is certainly not above criticism, but there is a difference between healthy criticism and moaning.

 

David.

[motty]

Believe me, there are plenty who feel the future of wildfowling is being hurt badly by the actions of Basc.

[panoma1]

BASC is certainly not above criticism, but there is a difference between healthy criticism and moaning.

 

David.

And who pray decides if it's healthy critism or moaning?

[wymberley]

Quite the opposite actually! Critism is healthy! It is not moaning to speak out if you feel something is not right! Point it out, keep the pressure on and work to change things.......but from within!

 

BASC is not above criticism, but is a big player in the future of our sport...... if you are a shooter, walking away is not an option!

Cracking post - short and to the point.

 

I am guilty as charged, having left BASC after half a lifetime being totally dismayed with the situation regarding lead shot and the education (or lack of it) situations and being somewhat older with some experience moved to the NGO which met my current needs better.

 

Now, I realise that this is going to put me in a very small minority - possibly even of just one, but here goes. Do our two prospective Council candidates have any idea that brought the BASC coaching programme into being?

I've just looked at what BASC is offering in the way of courses. With two exceptions, one being the DSCs there is nothing on offer over one day's duration. The other is the coaching course - have you seen how much that costs? Have our candidates any idea how much the first ones cost the students? And how was BASC able to claw that expense back?

 

I'm sorry, but with all the external pressures upon us, I feel that the way forward so that these can be refuted is, education, education, education. Unfortunately, under the current BASC regime this is not going to happen because, as witnessed by the price of said coaching course, people either can't or won't pay the price. Consequently, it remains a distinct possibility that if we choose not to educate ourselves, at some point in the non too distant future if we're not careful, someone will ensure that we do and it's going to hurt.

 

As I see it, BASC is there to lead, but currently it is failing to do so.

 

To be fair to me, this is said as a former Hon REDO (later shortened to Hon HEO) and one of the first batch of Sporting Shotgun Shooting Coaches.

And who pray decides if it's healthy critism or moaning?

Therein lies the rub.

[Reabrook]

Quite the opposite actually! Critism is healthy! It is not moaning to speak out if you feel something is not right! Point it out, keep the pressure on and work to change things.......but from within!

BASC is not above criticism, but is a big player in the future of our sport...... if you are a shooter, walking away is not an option!

My feelings exactly.

 

I'm very much of the opinion that BASC does not have Wildfowling at the forefront of its priorities and yesterday's Conference did little to dispel that. We all see things differently but I find those who find fault with everything as annoying and unhelpful as those who refuse to accept there's a problem. I'll continue to criticise where I think it's necessary and relevant also taking the time to give praise where it is due.

There is without doubt genuine and valid disquiet within the Wildfowling ranks and a growing call for forming a new organisation. Change from within to a supposed Members led organisation should be both achievable and desirable beforehand but we will have to wait and see.