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I think I have a really duff die set for my .17 hornet? OR am I doing


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Hi All

 

I bought a Lee pacesetter die set for my .17 hornet and the first issue I noticed it had the wrong shell holder for my press for some reason it had I think a .220 holder rather than a hornet one. Fortunately a quick call to the retailer sorted that out.

However after resizing a load of brass I have after getting some free time come to load some cartridges up. I set the seating die in the press as per instructions and to get the COL setup as per the reloading data I thought I would try it with a dummy cartridge so I didn't screw it up with a primed one.

However the blooming seating die wont seat the bullet deep enough. The recommended COL for my powder is 1.715" even with the knob on the top of the seating die wound right in I can only get 1.768".

 

What do the PW experts think is it me being a **** or have I got a Friday afternoon lemon set of dies? The shellholder thing doesn't inspire me with confidence and the die setup instruction is pretty basic so I think I have it right.

 

 

Cheers Zetter

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Can you see a very fine line somewhere in the ogive area, possibly towards the tip around the bullet? It is very fine, so it might just pay to try again with a bullet 'painted' with a felt tip pen to include the tip. If you can't see a mark where described, have a look at the tip. Alternately, dismantle the die (not a bad idea anyway when new to clean out any swarf and possibly smooth things out) and see how the internal sleeve engages with the bullet.

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Will do Wymberley I have dismantled the die and it looks like the internal sleve is too short if this makes any sense. It seats the bullet fine but wont go low enough for the required overall cartridge length

 

Dont know if this makes sense or not?

Edited by Zetter
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According to the instructions with the set its raise the press arm and screw in the die until it touches the shellholder then give it a quater more turn in then lock it off. Then you adjust the seating depth with the screw knob on top but it doesnt go in far enough to get the correct seating on the bullet its really odd. I cant see any other way to adjust it screwing the die in more to the press just makes the press arm come up less it doesnt seem to affect the seating depth in any way.

Just checked in fact there is a third die for crimping separately.

Edited by Zetter
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From the faint lines I can see Wymberley its contacting the ogive area there is also no damage to balistic tip either to lead me to believe the inner sleeve isnt working correctly. It almost seems its too short for the hornet bullet as the shell holder wasnt correct I wonder if the wrong sleeve got put in i.e. one designed for a longer bullet possibly the same one as the incorrect shellholder?

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Hopefully another 17 loader will come along with the answer. However, check, but you might find that the CoL given is the minimum. As you develop the load you might find that a length that puts the bullet nearer the lands suits better. You could while you're playing slacken of the bullet in the case so it just grips but moves with a push, extend it a fair way and load it slowly in the rifle. Unload equally slowly and measure - you get the drift, you've just found the maximum possible - less a couple of thou' - CoL. Now fiddle some more and adjust if necessary to see the max length the mag' will accept. Eventually you might just find that if you can't solve the problem it actually ceases to be one.

Good luck

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Zetter have you ever reloaded before? is this your first attempt?

 

Reason is I have some concerns over your comments "The recommended COL for my powder is....." - there is no correlation between powder and Case Overal Length.

You also say "screw in the die until it touches the shellholder then give it a quater more turn in then lock it off" This is lee's method of setting the sizing die and not the bullet seating die. You might use this on a seating die IF you are going to crimp the bullet but I would advise against crimps unless the bullet has a crimp grove (cannelure) and even then I still would not advise.

 

What Powder, charge weight and bullet are you using? I don't reload this cartridge but I'm sure there is a lot of people who will comment if you are out of spec.

 

I know this maybe stupid but does it idefinitely says on the side of each die - 17 hornet?

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Hi Rem and Wymberley

 

This is my first time reloading but according to the reloading data supplied with the dies the maximum overall length of the cartridge is 1.720 inches the trouble is I can only get 1.762 inches before I run out adjustment on the die which makes the cartridge length well above the maximum which I would think would cause feeding issues. I have checked a couple of factory rounds and they are coming in at 1.720 so I think mine are coming out too long.

 

Rem

 

I probably didn't explain myself well on the dies from the manual for the seating die it say

 

"Simply screw the die in until touching the shell holder, plus an additional 1/4 turn and finger tighten the locking ring. Bullet seating depth is controlled by the adjustment screw. Rotate the adjustment screw clockwise to seat bullet deeper and counter clockwise for a longer overall length"

 

According to the load data from the manual the Max overall cartridge length is 1.720" and the minimum for the powder I am using H4198 is 1.715" but I can even get down to 1.720" with the die wound all the way in. Bullet weight is 20grain V max and I was going to work up a load in 0.1 grain increments from minimum as recommended by a couple of the hornet freeloaders from here checking for pressure signs as I went but I was planning on keeping a bit below the max for tests as its my first go at this.

 

The die definitely says .17 hornet on it

 

Cheers Zetter

Edited by Zetter
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Zetter have you ever reloaded before? is this your first attempt?

 

Reason is I have some concerns over your comments "The recommended COL for my powder is....." - there is no correlation between powder and Case Overal Length.

You also say "screw in the die until it touches the shellholder then give it a quater more turn in then lock it off" This is lee's method of setting the sizing die and not the bullet seating die. You might use this on a seating die IF you are going to crimp the bullet but I would advise against crimps unless the bullet has a crimp grove (cannelure) and even then I still would not advise.

 

What Powder, charge weight and bullet are you using? I don't reload this cartridge but I'm sure there is a lot of people who will comment if you are out of spec.

 

I know this maybe stupid but does it idefinitely says on the side of each die - 17 hornet?

Yep for the sizing die, but specifically, 1/4 to 1/3. But also for the seating die unless you're not going to crimp when instead of going in the 1/4 you back off 1/2. I have Lee's Modern reloading to hand.

 

Zetter, if you are just starting off, well I'm just finishing off and have no further need for the above book and you're welcome to it should you wish. It's not new by any stretch of the imagination but the only things that will have changed is, of course, anything relating to the 17 Hornet, and some of the newer powders available.

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Cheers Wymberley

 

That is a really generous offer.

 

One thing I better add is that with the pacesetter die set the seating die doesnt do any crimping. There is a separate die in the set for that if needed and I wasnt planning to touch that as most material I had read didnt recommend it.

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Cheers Wymberley

 

That is a really generous offer.

 

One thing I better add is that with the pacesetter die set the seating die doesnt do any crimping. There is a separate die in the set for that if needed and I wasnt planning to touch that as most material I had read didnt recommend it.

That'll teach me to pay attention! Pacesetter clearly mentioned.

To crimp or not is the same as 6s or 7s. For field use - unload, reload possibly a couple of times or more before being fired, not to mention getting dropped from the land rover roof - a light crimp has its advantages.

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OK thanks to everyone who has commented on my comments.

 

Zetta

 

Could you try this please. Unscrew the locking ring so it is well up the die and out of the way. Unscrew the fine adjuster so it is also well out of the way. Take a factory round and put in the shell holder. Drop the handle so the ram rod is at maximum height. Now screw the seating die down till it touches the shell plate (hopefully the locking ring is way off contact). Now gently screw the fine adjuster down till it stops. Now lift the handle so the ram rod and live round is out of the way. Can you screw the fine adjuster down any more? - you will have to hold the die body to stop it also turning.

 

If you can then the die is probably ok and we can look further for problems.

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Hi Rem

 

Just tried this and the fine adjustment screw is bottoming out before there is any resistance from the live round. Following what you suggested I cant (after dropping the live round out the way) turn the fine ajustment screw in any further.

 

Cheers Zetter

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Hi Rem

 

Just tried this and the fine adjustment screw is bottoming out before there is any resistance from the live round. Following what you suggested I cant (after dropping the live round out the way) turn the fine ajustment screw in any further.

 

Cheers Zetter

 

Setter put a picture up of you die in your press please

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My Redding dies did this. Pound to a penny Lee just copied the dimensions from the early Redding dies.

 

I contacted redding and they sent a replacement, correctly sized seating stem FOC. Lee will likely do the same, just email them with the problem. New redding dies are fine as they realised the problem and fixed it.

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Cheers Mick

 

I got them from Henry Krank so will go back to them today on it.

 

 

Hi Snow White

 

The resized cases all measure up as per the information in the reload data and the overall case length is straight from the data supplied from the information sheet supplied with the die.

 

Picture of die in press attached Reggie

post-64664-0-55055700-1489386254_thumb.jpg

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Hi Snow White

 

I have checked all the resized case lengths against the recommended maximum case length and they are all below the maximum recommended before trimming is required. I dont have the exact data as i am at work but I did check them all as they are once fired with my gauge.

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I have had a chat with Kranks and they have asked me to send the set back and they are going to test it and if there is an issue send me out a new set or if they cant find a problem refund me which I cant ask for more really. I could run with the bullets seated as they are but its well over the recommended overall cartridge length so I am a bit dubious as its my first attempt.

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I have had a chat with Kranks and they have asked me to send the set back and they are going to test it and if there is an issue send me out a new set or if they cant find a problem refund me which I cant ask for more really. I could run with the bullets seated as they are but its well over the recommended overall cartridge length so I am a bit dubious as its my first attempt.

Can't ask for more. However, if they deal with Forster and Forster actually do them in 17 flavour because of the thin brass in the neck area of these rounds, now might be a good time to swap your 'faulty' one for a bench rest version.

Going to need some details if you'd like the book.

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To close this one off it looks like it was an issue with the dies. I sent them back to Henry Krank for testing and there is a new set winging their way to me as we speak.

 

Can I just say thanks to all the people who gave me advice on this especially Wymberley who also sent me across his old reloading book to have a go through which was above and beyond generous.

Its what I love about Pigeon Watch there are so many genuine people who are willing to help you out.

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