bakerboy Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) No.1 Garden Gun? I have heard these dust cartridges were used for shooting butterflies for collectors, fact or fiction? Edited March 19, 2017 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 http://gourmetsportsman.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/mini-purdey-of-king-george-v.html I think this is a similar thing! I remember reading somewhere a while back that King George V used to use the cartridge for shooting moths but gave up on the caliber because it was “too bloody expensive”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) You could shoot butterflies with it and you could also shoot at elephant but I dont think it is the right tool for either. Try rats, mice and small birds on the raspberries and cherries. you could read this through about five posts down there are pictures. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/57014-garden-gun/ Edited March 19, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hi Fortune Thanks for the link interesting reading. The 9 mil is much larger I will post a picture tomorrow of the 9 mil next to this tiddler. The butterfly comment was a little tongue in cheek. regards Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I think that you have missed this in that thread >> They were originally available in No.1 bore (6mm) No.2 bore (7mm) and No.3 (9mm). 9mm "garden gun" cartridges, or to give their correct name, 9mm Flobert, are still loaded in West European countries, the last 50 that I bought were in an Eley box, with 'Made in France' on it.They were originally available in No.1 bore (6mm) No.2 bore (7mm) and No.3 (9mm).Many kids had 9mm shotguns when I was a lad, they had the advantage that you could pull the shot and insert a 303 bullet, hopelessly inaccurate and possibly caused horrendous pressures, but we had no computers in those days!The 6mm shotguns were much prized, as they would take a 22LR round, again hopelessly inaccurate through a smooth bore, but they kept us amused.7mm was the most poular size for 'walking stick' shotguns.The only one really to survive, both in this country and Europe is the 9mm long, cartridges were originally available in bulleted, short shot and long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Can you imagine anything like that nowadays when the police tazer someone with a stick and he turns out to be blind, the idea of kids with mini shotguns seems like make believe 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Back in the 50s my grandfather had a small gun which fired these small shells. Used them at close quarters, shooting rats in the feed barn/mixing shed. I had a single shot 22RF and loads of free 22RF ammo which was from the Home Guard supplies. I used to wander around farm to farm(ours and my uncles next door) with this little single shot and no body blinked. The local policeman could very often stop and have a chat with me or park up his small motor bike and come into the kitchen for a cuppa whilst I was cleaning it. Lets see, I would be 11 maybe 12 yrs old at the time. How times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 The B.M. (Natural History Museum) used to publish a series of booklets entitled "Instructions for Collectors" intended for, I suppose, members of the Colonial Services who wished to help science. The one on insects does indeed suggest the use of small bore shotguns to capture tropical butterflies flying up in the trees. By the way i once came across a box of 12 bore Grand Prix loaded with dust shot. The RTO cards were blank. Would these have been intended for the Mediterranean where tiny birds might be the quarry ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I think that you have missed this in that thread >> They were originally available in No.1 bore (6mm) No.2 bore (7mm) and No.3 (9mm). 9mm "garden gun" cartridges, or to give their correct name, 9mm Flobert, are still loaded in West European countries, the last 50 that I bought were in an Eley box, with 'Made in France' on it. They were originally available in No.1 bore (6mm) No.2 bore (7mm) and No.3 (9mm). Many kids had 9mm shotguns when I was a lad, they had the advantage that you could pull the shot and insert a 303 bullet, hopelessly inaccurate and possibly caused horrendous pressures, but we had no computers in those days! The 6mm shotguns were much prized, as they would take a 22LR round, again hopelessly inaccurate through a smooth bore, but they kept us amused. 7mm was the most poular size for 'walking stick' shotguns. The only one really to survive, both in this country and Europe is the 9mm long, cartridges were originally available in bulleted, short shot and long shot. I have a 9 mil Garden gun(rim fire) and still regularly purchase 9 mm Flobert Cartridges. I use this gun on lessons when the child is too small to hold and control a .410, or when there is a younger sibling come along to watch and wants a go. The gun will break a static Clay at 10/15 yards and gives the little one the experience of firing a gun, (always ensure glasses are worn ). I love this little gun, and as I say in my profile it is my favourite gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 My first day shooting at an uncles farm with ,'Acme' 9mm saw me drop a hare stone dead at 10 -15 yards in a turnip field. Later while beating a hen pheasant a few yards above the willow herb jungle I was pushing through. The original Eley cartridges for 9mm fired the paper part of the case through the barrel. (at least mine did) which must have been a hazard where hay and straw were stored. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) As a lad I used to use a garden gun to shoot starlings that were causing problems nesting in chalet roofs in a holiday camp ( campers hate being woken by the noise of shreaking birds in the roof at 4 am on a spring morning ). The best place was at the back of the bar where I built a hide out of beer crates and put out the dead starlings as decoys very much like pigeon shooting. We could sometimes get 60-70 an afternoon. Great guns for ratting too. Note starlings were on the pest list in those days. Edited March 20, 2017 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 a lad I knew had the 9mm. He cut the over green plastic over shot membrane out, dumped the probably # 12 shot out and loaded something like an ssg or sg into it. no crimp or anything . the pellet went straight through a solid oak barn door and disappeared into an old solid oak.upright barn support post the other side of the barn It was a good job the upright was there to stop the pellet, maybe, Cant remember. Too many years ago. not a toy.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I have had loads of .22 shotguns, still have one or two around. Started using them years ago for shooting rats and kind of started collecting them. Ammo is regularly available although I have never seen any quite like the one pictured. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) follow on from post 12. Not sure but I think that the 9mm fires 1/4 oz load at about 600 fps. So if Sg = 8.38 mm 9 pellets per oz and Lg = 9.14 mm 6 pellets per oz. I dont know what an Sg would go like seeing as it would be only be half the load. the velocity would be more than 600 but with no crimp? be interesting to hyperthetically run one over a chronograph. lg would go ok and might / would seal better. You shall go elephant hunting cinderella. Dont know about accuracy though Edited March 20, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I loved the 9mm garden gun I used to use. Had some good times with that. Rats, mice, the occasional crow if it came over and sat on the roof of the shed. Also used for dispatch in traps with mink and what not. When it was a quiet day and I got a bit bored I would take the paper wadding out with a pin, take the shot out, get a sg cart with what ever size shot were there (some 6's and some some that I could only get 3 in) and have a laugh with static targets. Used to work great for trout on the top aswell. (Was a trout farmer and used that or the air rifle to shoot fish that were diseased instead of chasing them around the ponds) good times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Couple more Pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 The garden gun that I used as a boy was a super coypu killer . We used to take the shot out and press a ball bearing in the case . We used to get six old penny's for a coypu tail from the local council . Long befor the coypu campaign . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Looks like a cartridge for the so called "prostitute gun"very small single shot pistol that fit in a ladies hand muff or purse.Sometimes referred to as a dog scarer.mate of mine had a couple of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Looks like a cartridge for the so called "prostitute gun"very small single shot pistol that fit in a ladies hand muff or purse.Sometimes referred to as a dog scarer.mate of mine had a couple of them. It is a shotgun cartridge. Dust load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 It is a shotgun cartridge. Dust load. Yes bud but I suggested that as the pistols he had were smoothbored and rimfire too.Anyways I hope you find out what they are.they look like fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 The .22 RF cartridges with chequered cases seem to have been produced in both short and long (magnum ?) versions. I have one or two. They have no headstamps. The "ball" equivalents were the BB Cap and CB cap - cases about the size of the metal bits shown here with a tiny round or conical bullet. i believe they are still available on the continent. There was also a BBC (Bulleted Breech Cap) round made in 9 mm, much like the bodge job with the SSG pushed in as described above. My old chap had one or two but when he died I got rid of a large number of more less illegal bits and pieces he had accumulated. He even had an off-ticket rifle in the loft which he warned me about in his final weeks : " It won't be the jerries next time boy, it'll be the xxxxing russians ....or the moslems ! " Maybe the old fellow knew something ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbyduck Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 them 22 shot carts used to work on head shot pheasants roosting and drive by grouse shooting when the birds where sat on the stone walls around the Peak Park moorlands, so iv'e been told. pushandpull your Dad was right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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