Market manipulation

[ElvisThePelvis]

So, if you or I were to do this we would be jailed. When central Banks do it in order to raise interest rates and defend country against future volatility they are deemed prudent... How come?

[saddler]

Or ALL the big American ammunition firms about a century ago.

Stopped making black powder for a while as the take up on the new cartridge arms was not making enough money.

[AVB]

What exactly are you referring to?

[old man]

I presume Elvis refers to a US ammo plant laying off 100+ workers as a slowdown in sales hits?

[AVB]

I presume Elvis refers to a US ammo plant laying off 100+ workers as a slowdown in sales hits?

 

What's that got to do with market manipulation by Central Banks?

[iano]

 

What's that got to do with market manipulation by Central Banks?

[KFC]

Pretty much like George Sorros admitted that he forced the Bank of England into 'quantative easing' and made billions at the expense of the british taxpayer.

 

I'm sure the money men will also use Brexit in any way they can to line their pockets.

 

When I was a kid, many many years ago , then brown eggs cost more than white eggs because they were considered better even though they cost the same to produce.

 

Money itself was, is and always will be a con, we just have to live with it best we can.

Edited March 22, 2017 by KFC

[old'un]

So, if you or I were to do this we would be jailed. When central Banks do it in order to raise interest rates and defend country against future volatility they are deemed prudent... How come?

Wish they would put the interest rates up then I might get some return on my saving.

[iano]

Pretty much like George Sorros admitted that he forced the Bank of England into 'quantative easing' and made billions at the expense of the british taxpayer.

 

 

 

Not quite

 

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/george-soros-bank-of-england.asp

[wandringstar]

Pretty much like George Sorros admitted that he forced the Bank of England into 'quantative easing' and made billions at the expense of the british taxpayer.

 

I'm sure the money men will also use Brexit in any way they can to line their pockets.

 

When I was a kid, many many years ago , then brown eggs cost more than white eggs because they were considered better even though they cost the same to produce.

 

Money itself was, is and always will be a con, we just have to live with it best we can.

 

 

 

money was and is a con? What an odd line!

[old man]

back under the mushroom.

[JDog]

So, if you or I were to do this we would be jailed. When central Banks do it in order to raise interest rates and defend country against future volatility they are deemed prudent... How come?

What exactly are you talking about?

[Vince Green]

Everybody in business tries to manipulate the markets. How come when you try to sell your house you find that all the estate agents in the High St are charging the same rates of commission? is that a coincidence?

 

Or that our local BP Garage puts the price of petrol up by 2p a litre every night the minute Sainsburys closes?

 

Its a very thin line

[Vince Green]

 

 

 

money was and is a con? What an odd line!

On your first day as an Economics student you are likely to be told something along the lines that there is no such thing as money, It doesn't exist, its the biggest hoax in the history of mankind, but as long as everybody believes it does and are prepared to work for useless bits of paper lets say nothing.

 

Then everybody laughs and you spend the next three years finding out that its true

 

Its a fairly clichéd statement

[Danger-Mouse]

So, if you or I were to do this we would be jailed. When central Banks do it in order to raise interest rates and defend country against future volatility they are deemed prudent... How come?

 

It depends how you manipulate it I suppose. According to a book I read Nick Leeson reached a stage where he was causing the markets he was involved in to swing just because of the size of the trades he was enacting.

[Vince Green]

 

It depends how you manipulate it I suppose. According to a book I read Nick Leeson reached a stage where he was causing the markets he was involved in to swing just because of the size of the trades he was enacting.

I actually met Nick Leeson a couple of times, he lived very close to me in Watford and we had mutual aquaintances through a sports club. He seemed pleasant enough but no super villain or a whizz kid wheeler dealer

 

I think he was the fall guy who carried the can for others, but yes you are correct, every trade anyone makes alters the market because its all picked up by software designed to do just that.

 

In principle that how the Wolf of Wall St and his boilerhouse scams worked. Persuade enough mugs to make trades on a useless stock and other people's software will pick up the trades and they will get in the act too. Inflating the value for a while but crucially, making the advice given to the mugs appear to be legit.

[AVB]

I actually met Nick Leeson a couple of times, he lived very close to me in Watford and we had mutual aquaintances through a sports club. He seemed pleasant enough but no super villain or a whizz kid wheeler dealer

 

I think he was the fall guy who carried the can for others, but yes you are correct, every trade anyone makes alters the market because its all picked up by software designed to do just that.

 

In principle that how the Wolf of Wall St and his boilerhouse scams worked. Persuade enough mugs to make trades on a useless stock and other people's software will pick up the trades and they will get in the act too. Inflating the value for a while but crucially, making the advice given to the mugs appear to be legit.

Sorry but Leeson was a crook. He wasn't the fall guy, he simply was cooking the books to make himself look successful and hide his loosing trades. Edited March 26, 2017 by AVB

[Vince Green]

Sorry but Leeson was a crook. He wasn't the fall guy, he simply was cooking the books to make himself look successful and hide his loosing trades.

Is it possible that he could move that sort of money around without people above him knowing what he was doing? The story after the event was that nobody had a clue, not even an inkling. I found that hard to believe

 

What he was doing was working a system which was a dumb and nieve thing to do anyway. Silly systems like ' if it goes up two days in a row it will probably go down on the third' have been around for ever and they don't work. Full stop.

 

If his bosses didn't understand what he was doing, that is incompetence but he had been very lucky in the past. They thought he had the golden touch . The story is bizarre anyway but for me (and I don't like to say it this way but......) I don't think he was bright enough to realise how dangerous it was. Others above him didn't realise either but they didn't go to jail.

[AVB]

Is it possible that he could move that sort of money around without people above him knowing what he was doing? The story after the event was that nobody had a clue, not even an inkling. I found that hard to believe

 

What he was doing was working a system which was a dumb and nieve thing to do anyway. Silly systems like ' if it goes up two days in a row it will probably go down on the third' have been around for ever and they don't work. Full stop.

 

If his bosses didn't understand what he was doing, that is incompetence but he had been very lucky in the past. They thought he had the golden touch . The story is bizarre anyway but for me (and I don't like to say it this way but......) I don't think he was bright enough to realise how dangerous it was. Others above him didn't realise either but they didn't go to jail.

He was running the 'back office' as well as the 'front office' and hiding his losses in error accounts. Yes his bosses were lax, and the correct controls were absent but he knew what he was doing. He was ultimately doubling down his hidden losses to try to 'win' the money back. When he reaslised the net was closing in he did a runner.