Minimum case length

[team tractor]

Will someone explain to me about minimum case lengths for 233 and 243 please.

The nosler website states max case length is 2,045 for 243 but mine are 2,035 - 2,045 . Am I best to trim them all to 2,035 ?

How do I find out the minimum?

 

 

I like to learn and if I'm doing something I like to know why and how.

 

Thank you

[Redgum]

Are they new cases, fire formed in your rifle, full length sized, neck sized ? I don't measure mine anymore, just use a lee case trimmer, if they get a bit long from full length sizing then they just get cut back to what the trimmer determines.

[team tractor]

Are they new cases, fire formed in your rifle, full length sized, neck sized ? I don't measure mine anymore, just use a lee case trimmer, if they get a bit long from full length sizing then they just get cut back to what the trimmer determines.

Not all have been shot through my rifle. I've put them through the full resize die as I've deprimed them all.

I have a lee trimmer that's on maximum size it'll go

[LeadWasp]

Just to add confusion I find that my Lee trimmers all trim SHORTER than specified case length.

 

A few thou under is nothing to worry about, especially if it is in the neck. I have one cartridge type that is constantly 5-6 thou under.

[wymberley]

If it helps, SAAMI spec is:

 

223 is 1.730 to 1.760

243 is 2.025 to 2.045

 

but, as ever, you'll need to check for yourself.

[team tractor]

If it helps, SAAMI spec is:

 

223 is 1.730 to 1.760

243 is 2.025 to 2.045

 

but, as ever, you'll need to check for yourself.

Cheers

 

I've spent night after night on my phone searching for this stuff

Just to add confusion I find that my Lee trimmers all trim SHORTER than specified case length.

 

A few thou under is nothing to worry about, especially if it is in the neck. I have one cartridge type that is constantly 5-6 thou under.

Cheers mate

[Savhmr]

Just use SAAMI spec guide and trim to whatever the load manual you're using specifies (eg , for 223, it's usually trim to somewhere like 1.75 ). Consistency matters for neck tension if shooting beyond 300 yard ranges. Up to a few hundred yards, it doesn't seem to matter as much, so just keep it to SAAMI and you'll be fine.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Savhmr

[Dougy]

TT,,,

 

Just trim them all to the same length anything over max may not chamber.So whats the answer

 

Anywhere in the middle but all the same length.

[team tractor]

TT,,,

 

Just trim them all to the same length anything over max may not chamber.So whats the answer

 

Anywhere in the middle but all the same length.

Have done I remember you telling me but thought ask the lengths . Didn't want to look silly when I turn up with all scrap cases lol.

[Walker570]

Over the years I have just trimmed to what it says in the book and kept one on the shelf which I put in the cutter to set the right length in future trimmings. No arguments or complaints from the customers.

[team tractor]

Over the years I have just trimmed to what it says in the book and kept one on the shelf which I put in the cutter to set the right length in future trimmings. No arguments or complaints from the customers.

Thanks . Hope your looking forward to your new toy Monday .

[activeviii]

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page86.pdf

 

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page88.pdf

 

CIP spec. Gives chamber minimum and cartridge maximum. As long as your lap is below the max cartridge then your fine.

 

For varminting then no great worries is there a thou here and there under the max. For bench me target, keep them all the same

[LeadWasp]

and this touches on a general principle which is consistency in everything that you do.

 

Some brass will have a subtly different case volume, or will have different metallurgical properties such as ductility. The case volume issue may show up immediately. For example I find that Federal, Winchester and Sako brass behaves almost identically but PPU cases blow my groups apart - or rather groups that were developed in the other brass. This applies in the 100 to 150yd range! The metallurgical business will probably only come into play at longer ranges.

 

It is worth considering full length resizing your cases after every firing because it 're-sets' them to a standard size. You don't need to, but eventually brass will distort to the point that you need to do it anyway - and anneal too if you haven't done this already. This subtle change in case may knock your accuracy. I'm as frustrated as anything with my Swift at the moment, some days pin accuratce others a 2 inch group. After a few enquiries I'm pretty sure it's a brass issue so I'm going to full length size each time and anneal much more often. We'll see.

[Redgum]

and this touches on a general principle which is consistency in everything that you do.

 

Some brass will have a subtly different case volume, or will have different metallurgical properties such as ductility. The case volume issue may show up immediately. For example I find that Federal, Winchester and Sako brass behaves almost identically but PPU cases blow my groups apart - or rather groups that were developed in the other brass. This applies in the 100 to 150yd range! The metallurgical business will probably only come into play at longer ranges.

 

It is worth considering full length resizing your cases after every firing because it 're-sets' them to a standard size. You don't need to, but eventually brass will distort to the point that you need to do it anyway - and anneal too if you haven't done this already. This subtle change in case may knock your accuracy. I'm as frustrated as anything with my Swift at the moment, some days pin accuratce others a 2 inch group. After a few enquiries I'm pretty sure it's a brass issue so I'm going to full length size each time and anneal much more often. We'll see.

 

I think we can over complicate the technical side of home loading for hunting . When I first started I was always looking for 'just a little more accuracy'. Reading lots of information on neck prep, measuring case internal capacity, weighing bullets etc, I was forever changing things and trying new loads ,prep ,etc. A lot of this was done with my first new centre fire, the dreaded Remmy 700 sps, along with changing loads came new trigger,stock, forever onwards, occasionally getting bug holes, mostly ending up frustrated. There is nothing wrong with experiment as long as its safe but the one thing that has improved my reloading accuracy is the realisation that off the shelf hunting rifles have their limitations, some are good, some are outstanding, and of course my skill level. Even rimmies can be the same. My hmr nearly drove me mad, different ammo, bedded stocks but never predictable,(I eventually convinced myself it would only shoot the ammo that I could not get cos I had a good group with it once) glad to see the back of it, the same with the 243 remmy. Now all my rifles are boringly accurate, the ingredients are Tikka barrels, consistent case prep , loading and a much improved me. A few thou in case length variation as long as within safe guidelines just isn't worth worrying about, it will only really affect what's going on between yr ears,

[old man]

Lee case trimmer, less than a tenner, sorted?

[LeadWasp]

 

I think we can over complicate the technical side of home loading for hunting . When I first started I was always looking for 'just a little more accuracy'. Reading lots of information on neck prep, measuring case internal capacity, weighing bullets etc, I was forever changing things and trying new loads ,prep ,etc. A lot of this was done with my first new centre fire, the dreaded Remmy 700 sps, along with changing loads came new trigger,stock, forever onwards, occasionally getting bug holes, mostly ending up frustrated. There is nothing wrong with experiment as long as its safe but the one thing that has improved my reloading accuracy is the realisation that off the shelf hunting rifles have their limitations, some are good, some are outstanding, and of course my skill level. Even rimmies can be the same. My hmr nearly drove me mad, different ammo, bedded stocks but never predictable,(I eventually convinced myself it would only shoot the ammo that I could not get cos I had a good group with it once) glad to see the back of it, the same with the 243 remmy. Now all my rifles are boringly accurate, the ingredients are Tikka barrels, consistent case prep , loading and a much improved me. A few thou in case length variation as long as within safe guidelines just isn't worth worrying about, it will only really affect what's going on between yr ears,

You're missing my point.

 

The OP is on a learning curve about reloading and everything I've said is relevant to this and all remarks bar 1 are relevant to hunting loads. He will at some point need to resize, he will at some point need to anneal (or chuck the brass based on an informed decision) and it is good background to what he is trying to achieve. Additionally if mixed cases can produce significantly different POI's at 100-150yds then that has bearing too. I'm talking about opening up to 4 inch groups or worse -then factoring 'fever' and shooting position into your shot. So case effects can be very important for hunting. Nobody suggested anything about mucking about with the gun, I certainly didn't suggest anally weighing bullets. Lastly the only way the OP will truly find out about the capabilities of his rifle to produce the most accurate load he can. Isn't that the whole point - certainly nobody saves money this way? If any old junk is fine then one might as well buy the first factory you can lay your hands on and be done with it.

Edited March 26, 2017 by LeadWasp

[Redgum]

You're missing my point.

 

The OP is on a learning curve about reloading and everything I've said is relevant to this and all remarks bar 1 are relevant to hunting loads. He will at some point need to resize, he will at some point need to anneal (or chuck the brass based on an informed decision) and it is good background to what he is trying to achieve. Additionally if mixed cases can produce significantly different POI's at 100-150yds then that has bearing too. I'm talking about opening up to 4 inch groups or worse -then factoring 'fever' and shooting position into your shot. So case effects can be very important for hunting. Nobody suggested anything about mucking about with the gun, I certainly didn't suggest anally weighing bullets. Lastly the only way the OP will truly find out about the capabilities of his rifle to produce the most accurate load he can. Isn't that the whole point - certainly nobody saves money this way? If any old junk is fine then one might as well buy the first factory you can lay your hands on and be done with it.

 

Think your totally missing the point I was making mate, I wasn't knocking your advice but just trying to make a point that we can all get a bit over the top sometimes which may put the novice off. I think mixing brass is sort of common sense for even the novice. I must say, with my limited experience of probably only loading around 4000 rnds in four calibres over the last eight years I have never had groups open up to 4 inches over those ranges, maybe you should concentrate more on the basics and not the technical.

[LeadWasp]

You either need to concentrate on your manners or concentrate on your composition skills as that came across as incredibly rude. I certainly don't need to skill up on reloading. I could say some things to you in reply but this thread isn't about you it's for the OP who wanted constructive help rather than a pole peeing competition.

Edited March 27, 2017 by LeadWasp

[Vince Green]

Within obvious sensible limits there is no problem being undersize. All you are looking for is consistency

Edited March 27, 2017 by Vince Green

[Savhmr]

and this touches on a general principle which is consistency in everything that you do.

 

Some brass will have a subtly different case volume, or will have different metallurgical properties such as ductility. The case volume issue may show up immediately. For example I find that Federal, Winchester and Sako brass behaves almost identically but PPU cases blow my groups apart - or rather groups that were developed in the other brass. This applies in the 100 to 150yd range! The metallurgical business will probably only come into play at longer ranges.

 

It is worth considering full length resizing your cases after every firing because it 're-sets' them to a standard size. You don't need to, but eventually brass will distort to the point that you need to do it anyway - and anneal too if you haven't done this already. This subtle change in case may knock your accuracy. I'm as frustrated as anything with my Swift at the moment, some days pin accuratce others a 2 inch group. After a few enquiries I'm pretty sure it's a brass issue so I'm going to full length size each time and anneal much more often. We'll see.

 

+1

 

I anneal every firing now and as well as making the re-sizing easier (less effort as the brass isn't work-hardened) it ensures neck tension consistency.

 

Also worth pointing out the not all brass is the same dimension at the neck. My .223 Lapua cases are between 12 and 14 thou, 13 thou nominal, but my PPU slightly less. In factory chambers, this won't create too many issues but many competition shooters choose to neck turn their brass down so all is true for run-out and thickness.

 

I find PPU to be fine providing they're annealed every firing, and have got some pretty low (single figure) SD's from them. I collet neck size and with the smaller calibres, you can get away with half a dozen or more re-zings before you need to consider full length sizing. It works the brass less, but there are several schools of thought on this, with Lyman now recommending FL sizing. There's even differences of opinion amongst competition shooters on this, but many of the really serious guys only re-zize half a dozen time or more to keep brass internal volume as consistent as possible. For the rest of us, there's no reason why regularly annealed cases in small calibres (not loaded too hot) shouldn't last between one and two dozen firings (and between 8 and 12 firings for my .308). I discard the whole batch as soon as any neck splits or case-head waisting becomes obvious, or as soon as primer pockets start to get a little loose. It's not worth your neck chancing re-loading well worn brass.

[Dougy]

TT,,,

 

Just trim them all to the same length anything over max may not chamber.So whats the answer

 

Anywhere in the middle but all the same length.

 

And again the short version..

[Redgum]

You either need to concentrate on your manners or concentrate on your composition skills as that came across as incredibly rude. I certainly don't need to skill up on reloading. I could say some things to you in reply but this thread isn't about you it's for the OP who wanted constructive help rather than a pole peeing competition.

 

Ha ha, if you read the general content of my post rather than between the lines you may find that no insult was meant to you DeadWasp, the ops question has been answered simply and accurately by a few experienced members. If you are finding your groups are sometimes pinhole and other times opening up to 2 inches and you certainly feel you ' don't need to skill up on reloading' then maybe you should have a look at the recent posted clip of shooting technique, very interesting. Just trying to help.

[LeadWasp]

If you think - by your own admission - your average of 125 cartridges per rifle per year is notable - gosh - you machine! I'm in awe.

 

Like I said - learn to compose better posts that SAY what you MEAN then you won't cause offense. You also need to learn to better comprehend what other people write, then you wouldn't go off on petty tangents and deliberately miscomprehend a point about case volume. If you're going to publicly disagree with someone using a charmless and tiresome opening remark then at least do a good job of it.

 

I've manage so far not to stoop to your level and start flinging insults. The right people know what I can achieve and I certainly couldn't give a hoot for your approval - or otherwise. All you're doing is ruining the OP's thread by being at best initially tactless , then insulting, and now proving theories about your own 'minimum case length'.

 

Do they call you Redgum because you're bumping them all the time?

-

You're the charmless sort that ruins forums like this and makes good members look elsewhere.

Edited March 28, 2017 by LeadWasp

[welshwarrior]

TT slightly short is better than too long. As you know I have make cases for my 308 NM and the cases I use come up a touch short they still shoot accurately and work well as long as you keep everything consistent.

 

Consistency is the key the more consistent you make your ammo the more consistently accurate it'll be. How accurate is accurate enough only you can decide.

[Redgum]

If you think - by your own admission - your average of 125 cartridges per rifle per year is notable - gosh - you machine! I'm in awe.

 

Like I said - learn to compose better posts that SAY what you MEAN then you won't cause offense. You also need to learn to better comprehend what other people write, then you wouldn't go off on petty tangents and deliberately miscomprehend a point about case volume. If you're going to publicly disagree with someone using a charmless and tiresome opening remark then at least do a good job of it.

 

I've manage so far not to stoop to your level and start flinging insults. The right people know what I can achieve and I certainly couldn't give a hoot for your approval - or otherwise. All you're doing is ruining the OP's thread by being at best initially tactless , then insulting, and now proving theories about your own 'minimum case length'.

 

Do they call you Redgum because you're bumping them all the time?

-

You're the charmless sort that ruins forums like this and makes good members look elsewhere.

 

Oh dear someone has got out the wrong side of the bed, offer a man some sound advice and all you get is insults, but for your interest the multi edited durge your offering does make a forum like this a little more entertaining for those coming in from a hard day at work.