JohnfromUK Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Why would your FEO express an opinion on the quality of key safe you use? There is no requirement to use a key safe on a SGC. Is there a requirement for FAC? Because we discussed where keys were kept; at that time I kept them 'on me', except that wasn't really 100%, not at night, not when suddenly changed clothes etc. I have a small push button operated key safe for the garage keys - and asked if something like that was OK - and he wasn't really keen. He was only providing advice/opinion I had requested. At that time I had FAC and SGC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Why can't you simply put them in a drawer or an old unused jacket, or in a pair of shoes? I can think of dozens of places to hide keys in my flat , without having to buy something specifically for them. I just don't understand the need for key safes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) My concern is that the guns need to "be stored securely so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or ammunition by an unauthorised person". This is achieved by most people by means of a locked cabinet/gunsafe - most of which have key operated locks. My interpretation of how to meet the requirement with a key operated cabinet is that the keys (which are required to enable access) should be secure such that it should not be possible for an unauthorised person to obtain the keys. In the (unlikely) event that your guns were stolen without forced entry into the cabinet, I don't believe that you would have a strong defence where the thief claimed he found the keys 'in a drawer/in a teapot/under the cushion/lying about/in a jacket pocket' - or wherever you choose to 'hide' them. I accept fully that hiding them does reduce the risk of them being found, but I have a problem in the meanings of secure and hidden. Put simply - I don't believe being hidden is the same as being 'secure' - and I suspect a court/magistrate might have a problem. Hence I prefer to use a good grade combination key safe. Edited April 3, 2017 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffjjack Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Small magnet superglued under anywhere... bottom of drawer... behind mirror.... etc ... key just stick there! Put simply - I don't believe being hidden is the same as being 'secure' - and I suspect a court/magistrate might have a problem. Hence I prefer to use a good grade combination key safe. As people have said... keys in a safe 10 mins max to get in and then bingo away with your guns or they could be looking for hours for a "hiding place"... I know which one I would class as "reasonable precautions" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 My concern is that the guns need to "be stored securely so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or ammunition by an unauthorised person". This is achieved by most people by means of a locked cabinet/gunsafe - most of which have key operated locks. My interpretation of how to meet the requirement with a key operated cabinet is that the keys (which are required to enable access) should be secure such that it should not be possible for an unauthorised person to obtain the keys. In the (unlikely) event that your guns were stolen without forced entry into the cabinet, I don't believe that you would have a strong defence where the thief claimed he found the keys 'in a drawer/in a teapot/under the cushion/lying about/in a jacket pocket' - or wherever you choose to 'hide' them. I accept fully that hiding them does reduce the risk of them being found, but I have a problem in the meanings of secure and hidden. Put simply - I don't believe being hidden is the same as being 'secure' - and I suspect a court/magistrate might have a problem. Hence I prefer to use a good grade combination key safe. The regulation you have quoted relates to your guns, not your keys. You have complied with HO requirements by having your guns securely stored in a locked cabinet, the rest is entirely open to interpretation. If I was a burglar in a house where it was obvious there were gun cabinets, would I spend ages rooting everywhere for keys or would I make a beeline for that key safe screwed onto the wall? My FEO in fourty years of firearms ownership has never once mentioned the issue of keys. You're creating a problem where one doesn't exist in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 You're creating a problem where one doesn't exist in my opinion. The original topic asked about a small combination key safe. I don't disagree that this isn't a firm requirement, nor is it the only way to satisfy the FEO/HO rules. The original poster was asking for suggestions on what type of combination key safe to go for - and various answers have been given suggesting various types of key safe. Whether a key safe is the right way to go or not is a slightly different question, and again there have been various suggestions - clearly with many feeling that concealment is a better route. I prefer a key safe and have suggested the type I personally use, but that is just my preference and one I am comfortable with. I have in the past done the 'on the person' route and concealment route - and the key safe just 'feels better' to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I have one of these beside my cabinet with keys in it. http://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lock-reinforced-combination-key-safe/58460?kpid=KINASEKPID&cm_mmc=GoogleLocal-_-Datafeed-_-Security%2520and%2520Ironmongery&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%2520Listing%2520Ads-_-Sales%2520Tracking-_-sales%2520tracking%2520url&gclid=CJOo4vPCiNMCFY8Q0wodgr0A7A&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CJmG-_PCiNMCFVUS0wodCA4HCA I would like to see the look on the face of the **** who is robbing me and got the key safe open to find they are the wrong keys inside. Edited April 3, 2017 by rimfire4969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 The original topic asked about a small combination key safe. I don't disagree that this isn't a firm requirement, nor is it the only way to satisfy the FEO/HO rules. The original poster was asking for suggestions on what type of combination key safe to go for - and various answers have been given suggesting various types of key safe. Whether a key safe is the right way to go or not is a slightly different question, and again there have been various suggestions - clearly with many feeling that concealment is a better route. I prefer a key safe and have suggested the type I personally use, but that is just my preference and one I am comfortable with. I have in the past done the 'on the person' route and concealment route - and the key safe just 'feels better' to me. Then simply just buy any; they're all as ineffective as each other to deter robbery in my opinion. Anyone who comes equipped will soon be in any you choose to buy. I just don't get the key safe thing, but each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 FWIW, I think the Police approve only one key safe, the Supra C500 but this must be fixed in a particular way to brickwork. Problem being, maybe difficult to conceal which is fairly essential? Was advised that to use any other make outside the property as they are sold for, would render house insurance void due to ease of entry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 If you want to go mad, get one of these: https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Masterlock-Mlkmld08Eb-0049074025731-Compact-Biometric-Safe?gclid=Cj0KEQjwiI3HBRDv0q_qhqXZ-N4BEiQAOTiCHsNnpHRmlxsGttEEK1-54Ko6XY_k8s-KJ8SigsTUTvMaApSl8P8HAQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I have a supra C500 key safe as described above. I inherited it off my late father. My keys are in it, but it's hidden away. It's used to keep little ones hands off the keys should they inadvertently ever find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Proves nothing is really safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) https://youtu.be/JlCJA_A5lrM Proves nothing is really safe I'll hide all the pens and paper in the house too 😁😁😁 Keys have never been mentioned or the storage of them on any of my visits. When I moved I with the oh I hide them uber safe and didn't go shooting for ages and bloody couldn't remember where I'd put them lol. now I just leave them in the door much easier to find 😄😄 Edited April 23, 2017 by kingo15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Argos Amazon Screwfix Tool station eBay Home base Etc etc Or try google Edited April 23, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 My concern is that the guns need to "be stored securely so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or ammunition by an unauthorised person". This is achieved by most people by means of a locked cabinet/gunsafe - most of which have key operated locks. My interpretation of how to meet the requirement with a key operated cabinet is that the keys (which are required to enable access) should be secure such that it should not be possible for an unauthorised person to obtain the keys. In the (unlikely) event that your guns were stolen without forced entry into the cabinet, I don't believe that you would have a strong defence where the thief claimed he found the keys 'in a drawer/in a teapot/under the cushion/lying about/in a jacket pocket' - or wherever you choose to 'hide' them. I accept fully that hiding them does reduce the risk of them being found, but I have a problem in the meanings of secure and hidden. Put simply - I don't believe being hidden is the same as being 'secure' - and I suspect a court/magistrate might have a problem. Hence I prefer to use a good grade combination key safe. If someone wants your guns that bad and they know you have them they would get them. Wasn't someone recently beaten up in their house before they handed over the keys? How long would you stand having kettle water poured over you or your loved ones before you told them the combination? Sorry to mention it and let's hope it never happens to anyone but it's a bit mad going OTT with all the security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 you should always carry your cabinet keys on your person at all times, that's what I do. I carry one key. On my car keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 If someone wants your guns that bad and they know you have them they would get them. Wasn't someone recently beaten up in their house before they handed over the keys? How long would you stand having kettle water poured over you or your loved ones before you told them the combination? Sorry to mention it and let's hope it never happens to anyone but it's a bit mad going OTT with all the security. That is correct, people have unfortunately been assaulted though thankfully it isn't common, cabinets (I'm sure) will have been opened by angle grinder, and no doubt keys will have been 'just found' as well. What I want to avoid is someone relatively easily and quietly obtaining the keys, either by finding them on a door/car key ring, or hidden in a drawer/teapot etc, or inadvertently left out. We all obviously do this in different ways - and indeed there is security in the diversity of methods; I am comfortable with my approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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