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Having not shooting much reg esp shoots much due to work I like to keep my eye on things when the usual Sunday shoot scores comes in on various social media.

I've noticed and I'm sure many others have that the scores throughout all classes are through the roof, if you haven't put in a high 80's-90's you don't have a chance in winning anything.

Your thoughts please I'm intrigued.

Edited by Will Poon
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Will it has been happening for years, as Ed states, many shoots have gone "soft" and I often wonder if it is a deliberate move to hold on to customers.

 

People return to grounds where they shoot great scores, I guess it's human nature.

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Having not shooting much reg esp shoots much due to work I like to keep my eye on things when the usual Sunday shoot scores comes in on various social media.

I've noticed and I'm sure many others have that the scores throughout all classes are through the roof, if you haven't put in a high 80's-90's you don't have a chance in winning anything.

Your thoughts please I'm intrigued.

 

By definition the winning scores in the classes will be close to if not sometimes higher than even the next class up (and much higher than the "average" cut off for that class), that is how you progress to the next level. The HG score should by and large be ignored because regardless of target difficulty someone tends to produce a monumental and even unbelievable score making hard shoots appear easy.

 

Regarding target difficulty I personally think the opposite has taken place, even ignoring the dustbin lid pairs thrown off hand operated traps in the 70's-80's on which many of us were raised, shoots in the past tended to be much easier and certainly less imaginative.

 

Today we even have targets in between Midi and Mini, loopers are possible and routine because of traps flexibility and there are many more colours to contend with as well. The reason there are now so many good shots at the top is that many are able to partake of volume practice, I agree with Ed that easy availability of decent tuition is also a large factor. Yesteryear your only resource was really reading articles in Shooting TImes which erroneously taught you that everyfing is missed behind and that by shooting too far in front you could take care of the target using magic and wizardry of the shot cloud :rolleyes::hmm: , in other words they held you back instead of helping !

 

Targets are in my opinion harder than ever before but people have simply got better over the years, in the past you could bank on a 44 getting in the money at your average charridy fifty birder, today the top ten people you bump into at an average registered shoot would bang in 47+ without breaking sweat, some would refuse to shoot such targets, I know I would.

 

Incidentally the cut off points for averages has barely changed at all :yes: , I know because I once went back over 10 odd years and found AA cut off had remained inside a single target. :)

Edited by Hamster
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By definition the winning scores in the classes will be close to if not sometimes higher than even the next class up (and much higher than the "average" cut off for that class), that is how you progress to the next level. The HG score should by and large be ignored because regardless of target difficulty someone tends to produce a monumental and even unbelievable score making hard shoots appear easy.

 

Regarding target difficulty I personally think the opposite has taken place, even ignoring the dustbin lid pairs thrown off hand operated traps in the 70's-80's on which many of us were raised, shoots in the past tended to be much easier and certainly less imaginative.

 

Today we even have targets in between Midi and Mini, loopers are possible and routine because of traps flexibility and there are many more colours to contend with as well. The reason there are now so many good shots at the top is that many are able to partake of volume practice, I agree with Ed that easy availability of decent tuition is also a large factor. Yesteryear your only resource was really reading articles in Shooting TImes which erroneously taught you that everyfing is missed behind and that by shooting too far in front you could take care of the target using magic and wizardry of the shot cloud :rolleyes::hmm: , in other words they held you back instead of helping !

 

Targets are in my opinion harder than ever before but people have simply got better over the years, in the past you could bank on a 44 getting in the money at your average charridy fifty birder, today the top ten people you bump into at an average registered shoot would bang in 47+ without breaking sweat, some would refuse to shoot such targets, I know I would.

 

Incidentally the cut off points for averages has barely changed at all :yes: , I know because I once went back over 10 odd years and found AA cut off had remained inside a single target. :)

 

This all makes sense ... more people shooting more, and better coaching / understanding of technique and how to be reliable both in physical and mental processes.

 

97 won Grimsthorpe a couple of weeks ago .. no targets that couldn't be hit ... but a great score by someone who was clearly in great form on the day.

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Will it has been happening for years, as Ed states, many shoots have gone "soft" and I often wonder if it is a deliberate move to hold on to customers.

 

People return to grounds where they shoot great scores, I guess it's human nature.

 

I have been heavily involved in the setup of a good number of registered shoots now in sporting, sportrap and fitasc and it is fascinating in how people react to what is perceived as a difficult shoot.

 

There is a huge element that the majority of shooters do just want to break clays, they are not overly concerned about making significant improvement in their shooting, they want to shoot a number that feels right to them yet feel as though they have been tested fairly. If they shoot to their average or slightly higher they are happy, even if the targets that they made their number on were pretty noddy.

 

The genuinely competitive want to be tested and respond much better to a more challenging course with clever targets that need working at to be killed, but in every case unimaginative targets that only use distance, edge and speed to beat people are universally disliked.

 

When we have set courses that are more challenging the competitive shots love it, but the majority gripe about it. If we set courses like that all the time our entries would drop off.

 

So I do believe absolutely that grounds set shoots to maximise return and ultimately that means a slightly softer shoot.

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Many years ago, I used to run a monthly 50 bird shoot in Kent.

 

One day two chaps had completed the 6 stand round and were overheard moaning that it was boring and easy.

 

I was told about this and caught up with them at the mobile coffee van.

 

I asked them if they felt it was easy and boring? They started to make excuses, so I asked them which particular stand or stands they felt were lacking in interesting targets?

 

Their answer was extremely vague but they did not deny making the original comments.

 

At that point I asked them if they had both handed their cards with straight 50s in to the entries hut?

 

Their reply was wonderful. "Erh No we didn't straight the shoot" So then I asked if there was a particular stand they had struggled with and offered them another go at it with some help.

 

They said thay had to get on the road for a lunch appointment.

 

Really can't please all the people all the time!

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That is really true Dave, I hear people moaning about targets being too easy or people miss them because they were so scared to be in front, etc.

 

I think people like to think they are being challenged and if something seems to be tricky at first glance, but actually it's straightforward that always gets the best response. The difficulty is trying to set those types of targets deliberately, but also keep things fresh.

 

Big long floaty things always seem to catch people out and surprisingly often it is the better shots who suffer the most. When folk have time to think they double cross themselves.

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If people have a "choice" they like to shoot testing layouts that are regularly changed, I honestly believe that goes for even the less gifted although it's also true that some people will pretty much only ever go to the same shoot once a fortnight and shoot at near identical targets, you can't really call them regular clay shooters.

 

In my area I can say hand on heart that the better shooters actively avoid shooting too many reg targets at the type of ground that throws samey targets that inflate your average, unfortunately you can't always select to shoot the better layouts such as Steve Lovatt's or Southdown or Owls Lodge because for some travel time has to be factored into the equation.

 

If people truly liked soft targets then how come Trap and Skeet layouts don't have long queue's ? :lol::|:lol:

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I think I understand that there is really /two/ kind of targets. What you call the 'challenging' ones and the 'easy' one. It is actually very easy to miss the 'easy' ones and kill the 'challenging ones' because you stop concentrating on the easy ones...

 

For the 'challenging' ones, you are /forced/ to stay focussed... While you will miss the odd 2 for the 'easy' ones because you relaxed... I have to say I do understand what the 2 guys who moaned about it being too easy while still not straighting it... I'd *personally* rather miss 5 of the challenging ones than 2 of the easy ones. Missing the challenging ones will put a grin on my face, while missing the easy ones will make me groan.

 

It's still my fault etc, just want to put some perspective into it. Personally I have a bit of ADD that will kick in after 3 or 4 of the 'going away target from in front of the stand' sort of traps, and will very likely miss there. I actually don't care that much about doing a super score, as long as it's fun... It's a game after all...

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The standard of general shooters has gone up and the prize money gone down.

I never go competition anymore as even shooting well I'd be lucky to get my entry back, not much clay difference at the top of the classes these days.

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