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achosenman

.22 or .25 FAC

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I'm going through the process of caliber choice for an FAC air gun.

 

I have an FX Impact in .22 and .177 sub 12 ftlbs. As a powder burner coming to air guns, I've never really considered them as a serious vermin control tool for rabbits etc. For me, the FX Impact has been a revelation, I was out last night with the NV and I can now deal with problem area's that were not safe to use a 22lr at any power level...happy days.

 

I've got a spare slot on the FAC and have decided to go FAC air. Using Chair Gun and the optimum zero function for .22 and .25, the .25 seems to shoot flatter, drifts less and hits harder than the .22
Having never used .22 FAC or .25 in any air gun is this right or is this wishful thinking?

 

My local gun shop keeps trying to steer me towards the .22 citing it's easier to get the pellets etc.I get the impression they have no experience of the .25 so are just playing safe.

 

I'd welcome any opinions on the pro's and cons for both calibers from experienced air gunners.

 

Thanks

 

 

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I have been a lifelong fan of .22 even though I started out with .177 and still rate it for sub 12 ft lbs rifles but even though I currently use a FAC .22 FX Wildcat I too have been very impressed by some very knowledgeable people's move and preference towards .25 FAC, if you watch Youtube films of the more sensible people such as Ted's Holdover it is becoming clear that we may all be missing a trick here.

 

The argument against pellet selection is a weak one I feel because realistically you're gonna end up using one of 2-3 established makes which is all you need. The only possible weakness I can spot is the possibility that power levels are kinda approaching the limits that make you reach for them instead of sub sonic rimfires in the first place.

Edited by Hamster

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Good point Hamster, I hadn't thought about the power level aspect.

 

What kind of range (assuming I get lucky and hit what I'm aiming at :lol: ) is the .22 effective on rabbits with a chest shot? If I'm honest, I think at night, off sticks on a breezy night that would be the preferred point of aim.

 

As you mentioned Ted, it was his channel that got me thinking about a .25, that and him winning the extreme bench-rest competition with a .25 helped advance the cause as well.

Edited by achosenman

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There is another thread running further down the page answering a lot of your questions, personally always fancied a .25 if I was going fac that's the way I would go.

Edited by Mice!

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I have always been tempted for the .25 option because of the greater knock down power on squirrels and rats- which can be tough beggers at time

I have never really seen the point though unless you go FAC but then I would want to shoot foxes- which unless I am mistaken, you can't do with FAC air

I know field sports Britain did a thing on foxes with FAC but what does everyone else think about using FAC air on foxes at no more than 50 yards ?

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Good point Hamster, I hadn't thought about the power level aspect.

 

What kind of range (assuming I get lucky and hit what I'm aiming at :lol: ) is the .22 effective on rabbits with a chest shot? If I'm honest, I think at night, off sticks on a breezy night that would be the preferred point of aim.

 

As you mentioned Ted, it was his channel that got me thinking about a .25, that and him winning the extreme bench-rest competition with a .25 helped advance the cause as well.

 

I very rarely take chest shots on rabbits but admit it's probably just as effective as a head shot with FAC level .22 and of course .25, the upper body has a lot of vital organs so although it may not be as instant as a well placed head shot it's probably more lethal more quickly compared to a not so well placed head shot one meaning a frontal (not even jaw) shot which fails to connect with the brain won't necessarily kill within minutes but a shot that misses the heart will almost certainly do enough damage to still kill a rabbit relatively quickly. The rationale of head shots are obviously their more instant nature.

 

The other chap on Youtube who lives in South Africa whose name I can't recall is also quite enthusiastic about .25, the only proviso being that you have to run them at enough velocity not to get loopy aimpoints.

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I have always been tempted for the .25 option because of the greater knock down power on squirrels and rats- which can be tough beggers at time

I have never really seen the point though unless you go FAC but then I would want to shoot foxes- which unless I am mistaken, you can't do with FAC air

I know field sports Britain did a thing on foxes with FAC but what does everyone else think about using FAC air on foxes at no more than 50 yards ?

 

I agree with everything you say but as Hamster has reminded me, the .25 would be more limiting in and around barns etc, not to mention shots taken into trees and the fall out area. I have the ME envelope covered from around 3000ft lbs down to approx 100 ft lbs with various rifles. The niche I need to fill is sub .22lr sub sonic energy levels for rats and rabbits etc in area's where the .22lr is not safe.

 

The more I read about the .25 the more I think it's probably a bit too much for my requirement. I have heard that 30ft lbs is about the limit for .22 pellets and I really would have preferred a bit more clout, but i want it to be usable where I would be happy with a sub 12ft lbs version.

Cheers.

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I very rarely take chest shots on rabbits but admit it's probably just as effective as a head shot with FAC level .22 and of course .25, the upper body has a lot of vital organs so although it may not be as instant as a well placed head shot it's probably more lethal more quickly compared to a not so well placed head shot one meaning a frontal (not even jaw) shot which fails to connect with the brain won't necessarily kill within minutes but a shot that misses the heart will almost certainly do enough damage to still kill a rabbit relatively quickly. The rationale of head shots are obviously their more instant nature.

 

The other chap on Youtube who lives in South Africa whose name I can't recall is also quite enthusiastic about .25, the only proviso being that you have to run them at enough velocity not to get loopy aimpoints.

 

It's funny but I do a lot of deer management. Heart lung shots are recommended for big game in the UK. Death usually occurs in about 5 seconds. Running on happens with the larger deer species, but it's expanding ammunition and going a damn sight faster than a pellet. A neck shot is taken if I need it dropped on the spot for any reason, but the chest shot is by far the majority point of aim for most deer culled in the UK I'd say.

 

As an aside the .22lr doesn't seem to have an issue with "Body T" shots and instant incapacitation, do you find the .22 FAC more fussy on shot placement for rabbits than the .22lr?

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In fac .25 if the gun your looking at has a big air receiver, if you want small air go for .22 or your shot count will be poor.

 

My choice would be a new FX Crown in .25 and then also a .22 barrel for the few pounds more it costs.

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It's funny but I do a lot of deer management. Heart lung shots are recommended for big game in the UK. Death usually occurs in about 5 seconds. Running on happens with the larger deer species, but it's expanding ammunition and going a damn sight faster than a pellet. A neck shot is taken if I need it dropped on the spot for any reason, but the chest shot is by far the majority point of aim for most deer culled in the UK I'd say.

 

As an aside the .22lr doesn't seem to have an issue with "Body T" shots and instant incapacitation, do you find the .22 FAC more fussy on shot placement for rabbits than the .22lr?

 

I agree, never fired solids at rabbits but hollowpoint sub sonics are absolutely lethal as we all know, never known one to run with an upper body shot, if I'm honest I can't recall many if any real runners with body shot rabbits with air guns, even sub 12 ! Back in day when we were all learning our way through the likes of AirGunWorld I remember going out with a .177 Original and RWS Meisterkugeln wadcutters :no: the rationale being that they were accurate (which they were at 20 yards but prob not at 40), up pops this massive rabbit and shaking with excitement like a girl :lol: I aimed at the head free hand and missed, loaded quickly and in yooffull desperation of it not getting away let rip at the body, it keeled over as if hit by a train ! Another time a mate got me to take my .22 HW80 out to lamp some rabbits on a golf course he was a member of under strict instructions to aim to hit first and ask questions later, again shot one in the body which died fairly quickly but needed catching so to speak, when dressing it later it was obvious it wouldn't have lived more than a minute.

 

On the same day that same Original hit a rabbit in the head at rather short range which ran around the warren unfortunately not incapacitated enough to catch :/ and was lost under ! I still hate it all these years later but it taught me not everything you read is always true.

 

In answer to your question yes, as awesome as .22 FAC is and in many ways it's better, it is not the equal of a sub sonic rimmy in lethality.

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In fac .25 if the gun your looking at has a big air receiver, if you want small air go for .22 or your shot count will be poor.

 

My choice would be a new FX Crown in .25 and then also a .22 barrel for the few pounds more it costs.

 

Thanks for your thoughts figgy...I was looking at the Crown, but ended up with the Impact in sub 12, .177 and .22 To say it has impressed me would be an understatement. Things have certainly moved on since I was 14 and wandering around with a knackered old Diana 177 harassing the local sparrow population :lol:

 

I will be getting rid of the sub 12 and replacing it with an FAC version...probably in .22 now I've had some input. The truth is I need a niche power level, if I want to drop the "Hammer of Thor" on anything, I have enough powder burners in the safe to choose from. :yes:

 

Cheers

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Both 22 and 25 use similar soft lead pellets and as suggested above sub 30ftlbs 22 wins out but as you approach 45ftlbs with 22 you start to go supersonic and drag increases massively (and therefore air required to propel the pellet).

 

25 is useful from 12ftlbs to 20ftlbs if you don't mind the slightly more loopy trajectory, however above 25ftlbs and up to the limits it is the more efficient choice and little difference in trajectory to the 22..

 

If you are going down pcp route, check if gun is power adjustable, if so, you can set power levels to match task for either caliber.

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I agree, never fired solids at rabbits but hollowpoint sub sonics are absolutely lethal as we all know, never known one to run with an upper body shot, if I'm honest I can't recall many if any real runners with body shot rabbits with air guns, even sub 12 ! Back in day when we were all learning our way through the likes of AirGunWorld I remember going out with a .177 Original and RWS Meisterkugeln wadcutters :no: the rationale being that they were accurate (which they were at 20 yards but prob not at 40), up pops this massive rabbit and shaking with excitement like a girl :lol: I aimed at the head free hand and missed, loaded quickly and in yooffull desperation of it not getting away let rip at the body, it keeled over as if hit by a train ! Another time a mate got me to take my .22 HW80 out to lamp some rabbits on a golf course he was a member of under strict instructions to aim to hit first and ask questions later, again shot one in the body which died fairly quickly but needed catching so to speak, when dressing it later it was obvious it wouldn't have lived more than a minute.

 

On the same day that same Original hit a rabbit in the head at rather short range which ran around the warren unfortunately not incapacitated enough to catch :/ and was lost under ! I still hate it all these years later but it taught me not everything you read is always true.

 

In answer to your question yes, as awesome as .22 FAC is and in many ways it's better, it is not the equal of a sub sonic rimmy in lethality.

 

Thanks Hamster, I'm going .22 FAC.

 

As you say, if you need a rimmy, take one with you. The .22 FAC should be powerful enough out in the fields without restricting where you can use it and still give a good shot count. I suspect dialing down the power to 15ft lbs or so when ratting in barns will be a bit easier with a .22 over the .25.

 

Atb

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Both 22 and 25 use similar soft lead pellets and as suggested above sub 30ftlbs 22 wins out but as you approach 45ftlbs with 22 you start to go supersonic and drag increases massively (and therefore air required to propel the pellet).

 

25 is useful from 12ftlbs to 20ftlbs if you don't mind the slightly more loopy trajectory, however above 25ftlbs and up to the limits it is the more efficient choice and little difference in trajectory to the 22..

 

If you are going down pcp route, check if gun is power adjustable, if so, you can set power levels to match task for either caliber.

 

Thanks Stonepark the Impact has a power wheel on the side with an adjustable hammer spring, adjustable regulator and adjustable valve control, all tweaks are done with from the outside. :good:

 

Cheers.

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You will need a scope suitable for two power levels or a set of range cards with your new aim points on. If I was going ratting in barns I'd take a cheap sub 12 air gun and keep the fac for other tasks.

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You will need a scope suitable for two power levels or a set of range cards with your new aim points on. If I was going ratting in barns I'd take a cheap sub 12 air gun and keep the fac for other tasks.

 

I take a slightly different path. My ratting is done at 30 yds or so at night, so I chuck my Longbow on. Because everything is Picatinny on my rifles and every scope uses Reknagle QD's, it's a simple job to switch them over. I do make a change for the IR though since the Dragonfly is overkill in a barn. Once you note the vernier setting on the turrets after initial zero, you don't need to re-zero when you swap, just dial in the numbers and go shooting. :good:

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Is .25 FAC air suitable for foxes at under 50 yrds?

 

Cause to me the real value of an FAC would be foxes, so if it wasn't then I would have to get something like .22 WMR instead, which then is a whole different ball game

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Is .25 FAC air suitable for foxes at under 50 yrds?

 

Cause to me the real value of an FAC would be foxes, so if it wasn't then I would have to get something like .22 WMR instead, which then is a whole different ball game

 

.25 FAC will drop foxes for fun at 50yds and under.

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Hi achosenman, I read that you've already made up your mind and that you're opting for the .22 fac. A good choice. I've got fac .177, .22 and .25. The .177 is not very useful in my opinion, but it's my first gun, a BSA Spitfire, so it has sentimental value. It's fac because almost everything you buy in the Netherlands is fac (no restrictions on air rifles). Anyway. The .22 fac is a good choice at 30 FP. My S10 does that, but the shot count is not very high; 30 consistent shots per charge. Plenty for hunting though. This would be a bit more with a full length barrel. But there are plenty other air rifles that would have a larger air cylinder, eg. FX's. I've just got myself a .25 Bobcat as you might have seen and I would like to just indicate that it's a brilliant caliber at 48 FP, 60 shots, flat trajectory (flatter than .22 at 30 FP). I don't think it's that dangerous, as the pellet does drop quickly after about 50 meters. You can adjust it to 18 FP by the turn of a wheel near the mag, for close range shooting > just remember how many clicks you have to adjust and off you go. But you know, it all depends on skill and practice. A .22 30 footpounder is plenty to take long shots, as long as you know your holdover (or -under at close ranges). A .25 pellet is more stable with wind and hits harder, but .22 is plenty for vermin. I would personally never shoot a fox with an air rifle tbh. Hope this helps, atb Louis

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Hi achosenman, I read that you've already made up your mind and that you're opting for the .22 fac. A good choice. I've got fac .177, .22 and .25. The .177 is not very useful in my opinion, but it's my first gun, a BSA Spitfire, so it has sentimental value. It's fac because almost everything you buy in the Netherlands is fac (no restrictions on air rifles). Anyway. The .22 fac is a good choice at 30 FP. My S10 does that, but the shot count is not very high; 30 consistent shots per charge. Plenty for hunting though. This would be a bit more with a full length barrel. But there are plenty other air rifles that would have a larger air cylinder, eg. FX's. I've just got myself a .25 Bobcat as you might have seen and I would like to just indicate that it's a brilliant caliber at 48 FP, 60 shots, flat trajectory (flatter than .22 at 30 FP). I don't think it's that dangerous, as the pellet does drop quickly after about 50 meters. You can adjust it to 18 FP by the turn of a wheel near the mag, for close range shooting > just remember how many clicks you have to adjust and off you go. But you know, it all depends on skill and practice. A .22 30 footpounder is plenty to take long shots, as long as you know your holdover (or -under at close ranges). A .25 pellet is more stable with wind and hits harder, but .22 is plenty for vermin. I would personally never shoot a fox with an air rifle tbh. Hope this helps, atb Louis

 

Thanks Louis the truth is I still think the .25 is "better" than a .22 for all the reasons you mention. Hamster's posts got me thinking about what I'm really looking for. The truth is I need a .22 for its lower power ability. IE, less than 20 ftlbs for in and around the farm but because its a lighter pellet the velocity will be faster than the .25 generating the same power, but with a flatter trajectory. As with all FX's, being able to turn the power up to around 38 ftlbs for open fields etc means it's probably the ideal caliber for my needs atm. If I need a longer reach, I start with the powder burners and then it goes out to hundreds of yds.

 

How are you getting on with the Bobcat? I tried to get to handle one before I discovered the Impact, they are like hens teeth.

 

I tried a Wildcat during my search and didn't get on with it for some reason. It didn't fit me that well and was a bit light, especially at the muzzle. The Bobcat seemed to me to be the more "grown up" version of the design, I tend to shoot rifles that have a bit of heft a lot better than the their light cousins. I think there were only two or three Bobcats' available in the whole of the UK when I was searching. How is the accuracy at 50 yds? With a .25 I would think that's where it really starts to shine.

 

Atb

Edited by achosenman

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AOLQ, no minimum calibre etc in law, whether the shooter would or wouldn't is up to them. I know some people choose to and do well but I've not seen it done first hand.

Edited by Gonk

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AOLQ, no minimum calibre etc in law, whether the shooter would or wouldn't is up to them. I know some people choose to and do well but I've not seen it done first hand.

No minimum calibre in law, but many departments even don't allow .22lr for fox let alone air rifles.

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I know but AOLQ covers it as there is nothing stipulated in law meaning the quarry (fox) is lawful.

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To choose .22 or .25 in fac air ?

Well personally i chose both and .177 too for good measure .

It really comes down to what your intended quarry is and where it will present .

Lets suppose its for rabbit shooting .?

If your rabbits are over flat fields with safe back stops and shots can be at a fair distance the a .25 cal around 45 fpe is a fantastic tool .as its range and wind resistance are far better than a .22 or .177.

But if your rabbits present nearer houses or horses live stock and back stops are lets say a bit in doubt then a .177 fac would be a better choice as these tend to carry little energy past 80 yds and shed energy as soon as they impact a rabbit or anything really .

Now if you intend to take elevated shots on pige or squirrels in trees .then imo .a .25 fac is 100 % out of the question .it carries too much energy too far to be safe

A .177 is much safe in this respect .but the wee pellet can cmget blown about in the wind .a .22 fac with a light to med weight pellet is a better tool .as it will buck the wind some what but the fall out from say a 14.5 grn pellet isnt too bad once though a pigeon etc .

To sum up .if i was to have only one cal it would be the .22 fac .

Second would be the .177 and 3rd choice the .25 .

The .25 is definatly the most capable in terms of range and killing ability .

Its just that your shot oppotunities are going to be more limited .not unlike a .22 lr .where as the .177 fac can be shot with almoat the same level of back drop thought as a sub 12 airgun

 

Hope this helps .stu

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