Zetter Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Hi All So after what seems like forever I made up a batch of rounds to test working from lowest recommended load to 0.1gn below maximum. Did three of each to give me an idea of grouping and went through them from lowest to highest checking for pressure signs as I went. I only made three of each weight to prevent me pulling loads of rounds if I hit pressure signs early. No signs of any issues on primers or sticky bolt through the whole range and the best groups ended up virtually at the top powder weight end with a three shot group smack on my current zero (with factory ammo) at about 1/4". Also the test batch that was 0.1gn of powder lower hit virtually the same spot but threw out a flier which could have been pilot error. The lower end of the powder load were off zero to one side and the groups were not great. So do I need to look much harder and try larger batches or can I bang out 50 odd rounds for the PW weekend and see how I go in real conditions? Oddly enough best group of the day was with factory when I was checking zero before I started as the gun hasn't been shot for a bit and this was a one holer at 100 yards but my gun did always like factory ammo I am realoading as its cheaper and more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 if ya happy with the results then bang out a batch..... if ya think it has more to give make a few more and max load and .1 over see what the come out at if no pressure signs id go .1 again. I had a delivery today of 500 17grain bullets I'm going to try a reduced load for bunnies with them and maybe sell the hmr if i can replicate the ammo. to be fair my hmr hasn't been out since i had the hornet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Cheers Sparkie I agree with you on the Hornet as soon as I got mine the HMR went and this is now my bunny / foxing gun. I may bag out a batch of max loads for the Catton meet to have a ,play with as well to see if I can improve on it but the intial group was pretty damn good. Also I'm in for a variation at the moment so factory ammo isn't an option for a bit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Sounds like ya have a plan then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 personally, I'd keep pushing it. if you're not seeing pressure signs I would keep going up in 0.1 increments until you do. Most 17 hornets seem to like being driven hard. Yours is starting to show that. I'd go a few more increments and see where it goes. the gun is capable, so if you have the time and ambition, I'd push a little more. rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbangman Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 I wouldn't bang out a batch without shooting several 5shot groups to confirm what the 3shot groups hint at (but they sometimes lie!) If you don't have time before PW w/e and you don't mind (potentially) wasting ammo then bang out a batch and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 You have made some good points chaps work can go stuff itsself and ill book a day off to do a bit more development with a few 5 round groups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) if it was .25 in the hornet i would send 5 .if your getting .50 or less then why push for more speed? if you managed the extra 100 fps tap it in to your app.you will find it makes little difference to wind drift and elv is just an extra click or two.at the end of the day .50 is 2.5" at 500 which is a rabbit head shot or as near as damn it.i wager with the light pills the reason for missing will be pilot wind call or ballistic data not the load.its a great fun round enjoy bud.if your rolling your own at least you know there consistent and a miss aint mr hornady's fault . Edited May 22, 2017 by zx10mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) My thoughts exactly Mike, I'm not getting super speeds with 10.4gn of N120 but the groups are good, adding half a grain of powder finds another accuracy node but only 160fps faster. Why bother? Edited May 22, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Food for thought both and after some more reading on pressure signs I have come to the conclusion that they are really subtle until things go wrong and then its brown trouser time and im no expert so I think keeping under max load is best. I am going to punt out 10 of the two decent groups I got and try them again then settle on a load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 zetter what powder you using?. have you tried the .17grain bullets too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted May 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 zetter what powder you using?. have you tried the .17grain bullets too? Hi Sparkie I am using H4198 at the moment as from Fister's write up before it didnt seem to suddenly generate excess pressure the way Lillgun did. I have read with interest some of the results on the 17 grain bullets and may investigate them once I have a load worked up for the 20 grain ones. I am weighing out on a set of Lee scales at the moment (well I have two sets and they both agree with each other so I think they are fairly accurate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 The 17grainers almost certainly wont stand the pace from a centrefire hence why beefier 20gr and upward are what is used above 3000fps. The reason for Brown trouser time as you put it is that the criticality of the charge weight variance on such a small 10gr charge is very close to that at which mid range balance scales will consistently measure and, Id always look for a less critical powder that will weight better and most importanltly, show good batch consistency and temperature tolerance. I hate to state dangerous statistics of my own and tempt fate but 17's are superb rifles, just watch those ultra critical excess kernels, never mind grains that will soon pop a primer or worse because there is very little barrel space to allow that excess pressure to vent from with a tightly fitting bullet in it. Think of tolerances and percentages when it comes to cartridges rather than intrinsic volume alone and it helps to `picture` what is going on inside that tiny chamber and barrel with its still huger pressures on good old steel. Shortly after the HMR came out, there were a load of blemish bullets available in the US. The guys on Saubier bought them by the 10k load and were super happy with them on prairie dogs. In the hornet they were very good bullets. The only issues were (1) similar to the 35gr 22 cal vmax, they have the BC of a ping pong ball, and (2) reloading such a short, fat bullet was a bit of a pinching affair if you weren't careful. With the 20 gr vmax so readily available at the time, it was a tradeoff of the better price for those downsides. If I couldn't get 20's I'd take 17's for sure. If I could only pick one bullet for the hornet though, the 20 vmax is it. rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Shortly after the HMR came out, there were a load of blemish bullets available in the US. The guys on Saubier bought them by the 10k load and were super happy with them on prairie dogs. In the hornet they were very good bullets. The only issues were (1) similar to the 35gr 22 cal vmax, they have the BC of a ping pong ball, and (2) reloading such a short, fat bullet was a bit of a pinching affair if you weren't careful. With the 20 gr vmax so readily available at the time, it was a tradeoff of the better price for those downsides. If I couldn't get 20's I'd take 17's for sure. If I could only pick one bullet for the hornet though, the 20 vmax is it. rick lmao bc of a ping pong ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I bet the answer is in the barrels. Most of those guys were running custom guns since the factory hornet wasn't out yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Fuster hit on the point regarding temperature sensitive powder. Be careful when you develope loads in a cooler climate. Once we get a bit of warn weather your pressures will increase quite alit in such a small case. Specially if your already clise to max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I found I couldnt stop the 17 grainers disintegrating in flight and trying to drop the velocity and consequent rpm was counterproductive on accuracy and flashover potential. Rifling quality in barrels as well as twist rate will surely affect this and the savage I tried them through wasn't exactly delicate in this respect. Shame I never got to try them in the cz's I have had since then which have been more plesant to shoot accuracy wise anyway. ive bought a batch of 17 grain bullets and I'm impressed with them at the minute, a bit more tweaking is required but I was shooting stones at 100yrds consistently other night with my first test batch. now it could be down to the fact I run a shilen stainless barrel on the Ackley. or reloader 7 powders not being as aggressive as little gun who knows...more testing to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I too have been using the HK 17grainers since the law was changed. Haven't been able to develop properly because my van has been in the shop for bloody weeks. I plumped for 9gr of LilGun and they zeroed well at 150yds and I've been head shooting bunnies out to 150yds with no problem. When I get mobile again I'll certainly try different powders and bullet weights and the chrony but since I'm only getting out once a week courtesy of my shooting buddy these will do for now Picked up some 22 hornet once fired today and will have fun making a tween die and reforming to 17 hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 I use the bullberry forming die from America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Ok so. After another load of testing I'm getting thumbnail sized 5 round groups at 100 yards with 11.7 grain of H4198 which is the best across the range of powder weights I tried. This is comparible to factory ammo which is fine for hunting but if I want to push it some more what would the PW experts suggest to try next? I've got some different primers to play with but is it worth trying different overall bullet lengths? At the moment I'm going for length off the data from the Hodgdon site. Edited June 10, 2017 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Ok so. After another load of testing I'm getting thumbnail sized 5 round groups at 100 yards with 11.7 grain of H4198 which is the best across the range of powder weights I tried. This is comparible to factory ammo which is fine for hunting but if I want to push it some more what would the PW experts suggest to try next? I've got some different primers to play with but is it worth trying different overall bullet lengths? At the moment I'm going for length off the data from the Hodgdon site. Sadly, I'm far from qualifying as an expert, however, it may just pay to considering the law of diminishing return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 I know where your coming from Wymberley its just reloading is a tinkeres paradise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 I know where your coming from Wymberley its just reloading is a tinkeres paradise Again, sadly, I'm afraid that's very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Take it to a tunnel range indoor and test them you maybe shocked as mine will single hole all day long in one but outside a bit of draft can give me 1/2" groups. you could also be at the guns limit being a factory rifle id be happy with 1/2 inch outside. Edited June 10, 2017 by SPARKIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 This was on a tunnel range bench rested but I do take the points above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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