Labrador cross possible gun dog?

[getthegat]

So we've just come back from the Dog Trust in Basildon and picked a labby cross 7 month old bitch. She will be a family member (3 adults) and come to work with me at my garage workshop every day. (it's a farm building with fields all around) I'm hoping I may be able to get her to retrieve and eventually come pigeon shooting with me. Any ideas on training; I know about the gradual introduction of noise levels and the sight/smell of the gun. I see no reason why a dog without a pedigree should not be able to perform as a gundog. She seems bright, intelligent, inquisitive and our last Heinz 57 had a natural aptitude for hunting with little or no training (just luck I guess and a very missed family member) Cheers guys

Edited June 4, 2017 by getthegat

[motty]

_{I would concentrate on the basics before ever going near a gun. As with any training regime, it needs to be structured.}

[aga man]

No reason why you can't make a good gundog out of her, plenty if vidoes on youtube that can guide you in training or try a book by Eric Begbie called gundog training made easy.

Don't do to much too soon would be my advise, be patient.

Edited June 4, 2017 by aga man

[Walker570]

15 mins a day ...don't be in a rush. Obviously heal walking etc first, it probably has not had any real behaviour training. Get a well behaved dog and the dog will get the invites I see absolutely no reason the dog could not become a good shooting companion. I have seen all sorts and mixtures out in the field, from Jack Russells to Alsatians and they have done the job admirably and I have seen many so called top pedigree shooting dogs which have been a pain the backside and useless because their owner was more than useless and had not put the work in.

Best of luck and hope the dog does well for you.

[scotslad]

It will really depend on the individual dog itself and ur training wether or not it makes the grade as a gundog, even some pure breed labs/spaniels don't make it.

Possibly the biggest problem u may have is a hard mouth if previous owners have been playing tug of war with it, i'm not sure if there is any real cure for that when it has already developed.

 

My 1 piece of advice would be not to let it run about ur workshop/farm area while ur working, either crate it or have a kennel for it and just get it out for 5-15mins or anytime u have a few spare and just do a wee bit training.

Generally letting dogs run about throu the day, esp in a rural environment is a recipe for disaster, to easy for them to learn to chase and be independent

[getthegat]

That's great advice, thanks. Was not intending to let her roam at work, as she would be teaching herself and almost certainly bad habits would ensue. If she doesn't make a good gundog it would be a shame, but not a "deal breaker", after all not every person with a gun is a good marksman or hunter. Looking forward to some great times with my new mans best friend. So sad and shocking to see the terrible news from our great capital city and so soon after Manchester. What the hell is this world coming to.

[Retsdon]

If the dog has the basics you can teach it to do pretty much anything you want. If it'll fetch a ball then it'll retrieve game. Many years ago I had a stray mongerel from the Mile End Road that, transported to Scotland, would kill rats in a 10 ton grain bin like a Jack Russell, could flush rabbits from ankle high gorse like a cocker, and, at a push, he would even swim to retrieve duck from our flight pond into the bargain. A bit crushed when they came back..but never mind..

 

Basically the dog will be what you give it the opportunity to do.. For sure there are jobs like pointing, or herding stock, that are intrinsic to the breed, but most dogs will fetch and hunt...and if you give them the chance who knows.

[Retsdon]

I might have added that there's no need to keep the dog locked away between training sessions. For sure, if you have numbers of dogs (as most professional trainers do) then tbe only way to manage training is to do it a dog at a time. But if you only have a single dog, you can be light-heartedly training it all the time. Little things.

 

The only point being that you must be consistent. If you say 'sit' the dog must sit. If you say 'heel' the dog must heel. Never can the dog have the option of a decision. Stick or carrot, and if you can't apply either (metaphorically) don't give the command at all.

 

Mongerels are intelligent and versatile dogs, and I've never understood why people pay hundreds of pounds for pedigrees when you can take mutts from the pound and outdide of trials work get them to do the basic job just as well.

 

Good luck and don't bully the dog.

[subsonicnat]

Had an Alsation some years back,took her pigeon shooting.

She hated the bang of the gun,Could have swore she put her paws over her ears as I raised the gun.

Always went down went flicking safety off..

She never let one pigeon go unpicked..

But by crikey,You could hear the bones crunch when she picked them...

Like any gun dog,when I got the gear out,She did not want to be left behind..

Cracking Bitch she was..

Came from kennels that sold her to us,been left with no food or water in locked shed.

She was in welp when they first got her,You could put both hands round her stomache the bloke said,

Did not even know she was going to drop..

There are some terrible people in this world,That swine was one of them..

[Michael Scotland]

There are lots of cross breeds /mungrels working all over the country ie springador sprocker there is no reason that with a little training your dog can be a very good gun dog

[getthegat]

Hi, it's been a while, but Sophie is doing pretty well. Taken her pigeon shooting a few times and although at this time she's not over keen on sitting in a hide with me, she will sit or lie very near when in a small cops and only runs out to the dropped dead birds, never just to a shot when I miss. She always finds the bird and nuzzles it, but won't retrieve. She retrieves, balls, frizbys etc, but how to I persuade her to pick up a pigeon? She also is fine off the lead, but freeks out when restrained and gets severely emotional and anxious to the point of shaking and crying when in the back of my estate car behind the dog bars. She is impossible to walk down the street and goes balastic when seeing other dogs, but fine off the lead. Sorry for so many questions. Many thanks.

[motty]

I fear you haven't listened to the advice you have been given. Taking the dog pigeon shooting already could well be a bad move. Sounds like you are trying to run before you can walk.

[fortune]

i had the problem with a dog that wouldn't pick up birds. it was frightened of a pigeon. I cut the wings off and let the dog play with the wing. I put the wing in its mouth and held it shut for a while. I then threw the wing like a twig and the dog started to play with it. after a while I got the body out and the dog played with that and this sort of developed into a retrieve. we worked on that until it would retrieve anything. PS dont throw balls and let the dog run in to get it. this develops into the dog running in all of the time and once they think that it is ok to do this it is a real bad thing. every time you raise the gun, the dog is half way to the target.

[getthegat]

Hear what you're saying. She's definitely not afraid of pigeons, just not sure what she's meant to do with them. She really is like 2 different animals when loose and in the fields,she hunts, comes to whistle, sits and waits, not at all gun shy. Then there's the other side of her character when on a lead and we're attempting the normal pet walking around the streets. She started life on the streets of Ireland and I'm sure this is where here fears and fobias come from. I'm thinking of tying a couple wings to a dummy and see if she cotton's on. I'm no expert and will never go to an organised shoot (another story on that subject) it will always be me a my dog having a few afternoons doing my bit at pigeon control.

[motty]

The dog is only 10 months old!

[getthegat]

About 9 or 10 months now. Is that good or bad? We're doing lead training as much as we can, to get her confidence up when out on the streets, which will help with further obedience in the field.

[Konnie]

Still a pup let it mature,

install steadiness heal, lead work etc. making a steady obedient dog now will give years of pleasure, a rushed training programme will result in years of frustration for you both dog trying to please and no idea what it's doing wrong.

 

Don't move on to the next level of training until the previous is being carried out fully

 

ATB with your training.

[scotslad]

Konnie is spot on above, which I assume is wot motty was hinting to as well.

 

I've never took a 10 month old pup out shooting yet even if I've had it since 8 weeks and training has went brilliantly at ever step.

 

I came home with an unexpected extra dog the other day from the grouse, (not entirely sure wot age or exact breed) but even thou we suspect its around 2ish but worked last season I've took it back to basic puppy training, sits/stays recall etc, so age is sort of irrelevant the dog should only advance to next stage when it has mastered the last one.

 

Too much too soon has ruined many dogs both average 1's and 1's showing heaps of potential, often 1st time owners/or single dog owners are worst as there desperate to get there only dog working but if they held it back another few months or even a season they'd end up with a far better steadier dog for the next 10 years.

 

I'd spend some time reading throu past threads on here about basic puppy gundog training or watch some of lee klinsmans clips on here.

Tying wings to a dummy or putting a bird inside a set of tights might help but pigeons are the worst bird u could ask a young dog to pick up as the feathers are so loose, a dog will just get a mouthful of feathers.

Personally if my dog was at that stage I'd try with pheasant or duck wings (ducks ave esp tight feathers) at this time of year should be be able to find some roadkill poults and dry the wings. Ur then meant to progress onto cold game before starting on fresh shot stuff

[toontastic]

Act in haste, repent at your leisure is a saying worth bearing in mind. Rush it and cut corners now and you'll spend the next ten years regretting it.

[WGD]

Agree with those that have said too much too soon; you got a 7 month old rescue dog at the start of June and less than 3 months later you're asking it to sit in a hide and retrieve pigeons.... you're way way ahead of yourself.

 

Back off the shooting thing. Get the dog comfortable with you in every environment (the car, with other dogs, on the lead) and work on retrieving with dummies and balls, building up to dummies with feathers on, then cold birds, then freshly shot birds and combine steadiness, recall, maybe a bit of handling and lots of socialisation. Do all of that before you ask her to sit in a hide, take your time just now and she could be about right for sitting in a hide next summer.

[loriusgarrulus]

Another aspect of having a very young dog sat in the hide with you is their ears are more sensitive than an older dog. If you are letting off a lot of shots in close proximity to her you could end up with your dog prematurely deaf as she gets older.

Then its train to a buzz collar or hand signals only. Even as a pet they need to obey commands.

[getthegat]

Great advice and we are now concentrating on the basics. She is learning sit and stay commands, ball and toy retrieval, the "in" command works especially well, plus she now is far more relaxed around other dogs. The car journeys can still be noisey, she gets very excited, but it's all coming together. Shooting has dropped off for me at the moment anyway, so good chance for training sessions. Thanks everyone