Heavier or lighter .22 pellets

[Guest]

I have had variable results switching between 16Gn and 18Gn .22 pellets with my 12ftlb Ultra. The heavier ones hold in the wind better but I'm not convinced they penetrate as well at 25+ yds. Anyone got any more conclusive results?

[Mice!]

I used to like using bisley magnums because of the impact of such a heavy pellet but the tragectory is very loopy.

 

Don't think you can do much about the wind with sub 12, so I just use accu pell, they suit my gun.

[Hamster]

Sub 12 I have always favoured up to around 14.3 grains and no more than 15g, FAC power I still prefer pellets around 16 grains.

[philpotttt]

It is worth testing JSB Exact Jumbo RS which I have found to be very hard hitting for vermin but being a little lighter keep a better, flatter flight path. The other pellet in .22 which has a number of followers for hunting is Falcon Accuracy Plus.

 

I found the heavier pellet are better suited to .177 so pellets such as Bis Mags work really well.

 

On my FAC .22 rifle I use Air Arms Field Heavy or sometimes known as Field Plus at 18gr which are superb but need the 30ft/lb to get the results. My .25 FAC is again using AA Field at 25gr and again superb results.

 

It is worth buying from 'Voymir' a tin of JSB test pellets which have 7 different pellet types for you to try out which saves a load of dosh, available in both .177 and .22.

 

Phil

[Ultrastu]

I have had variable results switching between 16Gn and 18Gn .22 pellets with my 12ftlb Ultra. The heavier ones hold in the wind better but I'm not convinced they penetrate as well at 25+ yds. Anyone got any more conclusive results?

Well thats odd .as slower heavier pellets will usually penetrate deeper than a fadter lighter pellet .both having the same round head for example .

 

Personally i feel both 16 and 18 grn is too heavy for a .22 pellet .

I even use 13.4 grn falcons in my fac .22

Thats supposed to say faster

[chrisjpainter]

Well thats odd .as slower heavier pellets will usually penetrate deeper than a fadter lighter pellet .both having the same round head for example .

 

Personally i feel both 16 and 18 grn is too heavy for a .22 pellet .

I even use 13.4 grn falcons in my fac .22

Thats supposed to say faster

I agree. you're accentuating the negatives. Pellet choice (assuming accuracy is fine either way) is about what compromise to make. you pick a .22 to give you more stopping power at the expense of a flat trajectory. In a sub 12, you don't need any more stopping power than the .22, so why make the trajectory worse?

 

In a .177, the advantage is the flat trajectory, but its downside is lack of stopping power. It makes sense to think about a heavy pellet there, because you're negating a potential negative.

 

In a .22 I would stick at a normal weight, keep the curved trajectory under control and not worry about any increase in stopping power. Look at the .25 cal. They're fantastic for close quarter rat shooting, but over longer distances it's just too loopy.

[Ultrastu]

Ah now . how a pellet delivers its energy and where it delivers it into which quarry is the key to pellet choice .including calibre selection .

Obviously if you require a pellet to penetrate deep into a pigeon or crow body you will ne best with a deep penetrating pellet .if you want to splat a rat with a front end shot then a shallow penetrating pellet that dumps all its energy very quickly will be best .or a rabbit thats a long way out? is best to have a pellet that dumps its energy fast into the rabbit skull is best .

There is a very simple formular for penetration / energy dump .

Ie if a pellet penetrates far it retains more of its energy while passing through the quarry so if you hit a rabbit skull which is about 25 mm thick .then a deep penetrating pellet goes right through and doesnt dump much energy into the brain .making only narrow wound channel .

Conversly a a fast dump pellet .does exactly that shed most if not all its energy inside the rabbit skull .even if it hits with less total energy than the penetrating one initially .its can still effectively hit the rabbit harder where it counts making a wider wound channel .

And the formular .??

 

Bc .

 

High bc = deep penetration .

Low bc = fast energy dump

 

So heavy 21 grn .22 bc 0.035 deep penetration = high energy reaching the rabbit head , small percentage .transfered the the brain

Light weight 7.9 grn .177 bc 0.19 fast energy dump = lower energy reaching the rabbit ?higher percentage of energy transfered .

Cleaner kill .

 

Pigeon body is different the heart is deep inside and requires the penetration of a heavier /higher bc pellet .no point hitting a pigeon body with a 7 grn .177 wad cutter it wont penetrate the vitals .

Doesnt matter how accurate you are .if you use the wrong pellet .

Ps .i dont understand the term stopping power .it makes no sense .

[Ultrastu]

I feel that the best compromise at sub 12 for allround hunting (so rats rabbits squirrels pigeons and crows ) is to choose a light to med weight pellet for cal

.so .177 would be 7.5 - 8.5 grns

.22 would be 12 - 14.5 grns

.25 .would be 19 - 20 grns

This way you allow the frontal surface area to do its job and slow the pellet down inside the quarry transfering energy where its required

[Guest]

Really interesting. My normal pellet is 16Gn. Will give a lighter one a test.

[Longbower]

In my sub 12 BSA Scorpion se and HW95K .22 Sub 12's, I use the aforementioned 'Falcon Accuracy plus', at 13.4 grains they travel at over 600 ft/per second, are consistently accurate

and seem to be 'soft' deforming well on impact. And AA Diablo 8.4, in my HW95K .177.and HW110 PCP.

I exclusively' use AA Diablo's 16g in my R10 SE FAC@30ft/lb

[philpotttt]

I take your point regarding the .25 being loopy so only good at closer range in sub 12 but my gun is an FX Impact fac at 47fpe and with the 25gr pellet zeroed at 25mt (just the distance of my local indoor range) I am on the cross hairs at 20-25mt and .5 mildot holdover at 60mt so the trajectory is very flat which is why I rarely bother to take out the Rapid .22 fac anymore, very accurate but I far far prefer the Impact performance every time.

I doubt I would bother with a .25 at sub 12 to be honest.

 

I am wandering off, sorry.

 

Phil

[kenj]

Some interesting facts here. I have been using H&N Field Target Trophy .22 14.6 grain pellets through my Webley Viper 12 lb with good all round results on rabbits out to 25 yards. My Career 707 .22 FAC carbine is rated at 28 lb and have always used Bisley Magnums at 21 grains out to 50 yards with hold over, when zeroed at 30 yards. On my latest permission in a park, I have been shooting rabbits at under 10 yards out to 50 yards. This causes problems of hold under and hold over, when quick thinking is the norm, missing some absolute sitters. At 20 yards, the Bisleys often over penetrate, going right through.

 

With the Bisleys running low, I'm considering trying the shorter, lighter H&Ns in the Career. This requires a fiddly readjustment of the pellet stop. Has anyone any experience of these in an FAC?

[Stonepark]

I have had variable results switching between 16Gn and 18Gn .22 pellets with my 12ftlb Ultra. The heavier ones hold in the wind better but I'm not convinced they penetrate as well at 25+ yds. Anyone got any more conclusive results?

If the 18GR has a similar or better BC it will retain more energy at 25 yards and unless lead is softer than 16g pellet changing expansion speed and assuming muzzle energy and every thing else remains the same and penetration should be better with the heavier pellet.

 

For airguns a icecream tub of ballistic gel is easy to make up to test the various pellets you are using for penetration or you may find your pellets tested on youtube on one of the many pellet testing videos.

[Stonepark]

Ah now . how a pellet delivers its energy and where it delivers it into which quarry is the key to pellet choice .including calibre selection .

Obviously if you require a pellet to penetrate deep into a pigeon or crow body you will ne best with a deep penetrating pellet .if you want to splat a rat with a front end shot then a shallow penetrating pellet that dumps all its energy very quickly will be best .or a rabbit thats a long way out? is best to have a pellet that dumps its energy fast into the rabbit skull is best .

There is a very simple formular for penetration / energy dump .

Ie if a pellet penetrates far it retains more of its energy while passing through the quarry so if you hit a rabbit skull which is about 25 mm thick .then a deep penetrating pellet goes right through and doesnt dump much energy into the brain .making only narrow wound channel .

Conversly a a fast dump pellet .does exactly that shed most if not all its energy inside the rabbit skull .even if it hits with less total energy than the penetrating one initially .its can still effectively hit the rabbit harder where it counts making a wider wound channel .

And the formular .??

 

Bc .

 

High bc = deep penetration .

Low bc = fast energy dump

 

So heavy 21 grn .22 bc 0.035 deep penetration = high energy reaching the rabbit head , small percentage .transfered the the brain

Light weight 7.9 grn .177 bc 0.19 fast energy dump = lower energy reaching the rabbit ?higher percentage of energy transfered .

Cleaner kill .

 

Pigeon body is different the heart is deep inside and requires the penetration of a heavier /higher bc pellet .no point hitting a pigeon body with a 7 grn .177 wad cutter it wont penetrate the vitals .

Doesnt matter how accurate you are .if you use the wrong pellet .

Ps .i dont understand the term stopping power .it makes no sense .

BC has little relationship to energy dump, merely how well a bullet retains energy in a medium.

 

For similarly designed pellets the 'dump' occurs a few milliseconds after pellet contact (pressure/fricton causing plastic deformation) during penetration and in a 12ftlbs is generally over by 1 to 1.5 inches of penetration no matter the calibre as there is not enough energy in sub 12ft lbs.

 

The dump can be speeded up or slowed by the design of the pellet (hollow point in soft lead dumping between 0.25 and 1.2 inches versus pointed diablo in hard lead dumping between 0.5 and 1.4 inches) but a soft lead diablo with a high bc could out perform a hard lead low bc hollow point.

 

Over penetration (pass through) is of little consequence as a pellet passing through will have dumped the same or more likely a greater amount of energy than the pellet that did not pass through with pass through having the added bonus of destroying more tissue on the way out unless the target depth was insufficent for the dump to take place, however on such narrow targets the 'dump' is often of little consequence. I. E. Headshooting a squirrel or rabbit.

 

The old chestnut that a bullet that does not pass through is more damaging or imparts more shock is only true under certain circumstances which require significantly more plastic deformation than you get from shooting a sub 12ft lb airgun pellet.

[wymberley]

Just read this thread out of a mixture of interest and boredom and have to say that I'm well out of my comfort zone. Just in case there is any similarity between the two - I know not - for calculating potential penetration, then for shotgun pellets, energy does not come into the formula for calculating the penetration into ballistic gel. It's also worth noting that the threshold energy lost - converted into velocity - has to be deducted in order to obtain an accurate result. Under the same proviso regarding similarity, any two pellets depositing the same lethat energy (striking energy less the threshold energy), then the smaller is more lethally effective.

[Ultrastu]

Shot guns kill in a totally different way to a single projectile .

A shot gun has to put enough pellets into the quarry to disable it or get lucky enough to strike a vital organ .its all about having enough strikes on the quarry .the energy they carry individually is largely irrelevant .its a bit like a bee sting .one isnt gonna kill you but get stung by 50 and your in trouble .

An airgun pellet by comparison has one shot to do all the damage nessesary .

Which is why people get so hung up pellet type and calibre .

[wymberley]

Shot guns kill in a totally different way to a single projectile .

A shot gun has to put enough pellets into the quarry to disable it or get lucky enough to strike a vital organ .its all about having enough strikes on the quarry .the energy they carry individually is largely irrelevant .its a bit like a bee sting .one isnt gonna kill you but get stung by 50 and your in trouble .

An airgun pellet by comparison has one shot to do all the damage nessesary .

Which is why people get so hung up pellet type and calibre .

I understand where you're coming from, but it's not strictly true. As does any other sportsman, I don't shoot quarry to disable it, I shoot to kill it. In order to strike a vital organ, the pellet has to have sufficient velocity (just like any other gun) to penetrate far enough to reach it. Just like the .17/.22 debate which has been going on since 1954 that I can account for, equally so has the hydraulic/hydrostatic shock for shotgun pellet debate. 50 bee stings will probably hurt more but it's not a definite that they'll kill you.

Could I just ask, that if you believe that hunting with a shotgun is such that a satisfactory result is considered either a disablement or matter of pure luck, then either you rethink it or stick to the air rifle? I do not wish to appear rude, but from a sporting point of view, it really is as simple as that.

[Ultrastu]

Oh dont get me wrong. I try very hard to ensure that what i shoot at dies as soon as possible .ie instantly .

But ask any hunter who has more than a couple of years under his belt .if this can be guaranteed and he will tell you no .

Irrespective of weapon .. an air gun /rifle is precise . (Or has the ability to be so )

A shot gun beyond say 15 yds will always have an element of luck which you cannot control .

The shot spreads and there are gaps .thats a fact ..if an individual pellet strikes a vital with enough energy is increasingly down to luck and more so as the range extends ..

To deny this is to fail to understand how a shot gun kills .

Birds shot beyond say 35 yds are rarely dead in the air unless (again your lucky to hit a vital )

Which is why i try to limit my shots on pigeon fron 20 - 35 yds .

And decline shots beyond this .

[Ultrastu]

I shoot a tight choke on my shotty and if the bird is within 35 yds i either kill clean or miss clean .

But there is still a percentage of chance even in that .

[wymberley]

Oh dont get me wrong. I try very hard to ensure that what i shoot at dies as soon as possible .ie instantly .

But ask any hunter who has more than a couple of years under his belt .if this can be guaranteed and he will tell you no .

Irrespective of weapon .. an air gun /rifle is precise . (Or has the ability to be so )

A shot gun beyond say 15 yds will always have an element of luck which you cannot control .

The shot spreads and there are gaps .thats a fact ..if an individual pellet strikes a vital with enough energy is increasingly down to luck and more so as the range extends ..

To deny this is to fail to understand how a shot gun kills .

Birds shot beyond say 35 yds are rarely dead in the air unless (again your lucky to hit a vital )

Which is why i try to limit my shots on pigeon fron 20 - 35 yds .

And decline shots beyond this .

 

 

I shoot a tight choke on my shotty and if the bird is within 35 yds i either kill clean or miss clean .

But there is still a percentage of chance even in that .

Good oh! - we're on the same wave length. I've really said all that I wanted to in my first post in case the content was found useful. To debate this further means that we're going to go way off topic so I'll be brief.Funnily enough, someone who knows which way is up commented yesterday that some still don't understand the relationship between vulnerable areas and shotgun pattern density. At 15 yards with some choke the pattern has hardly started to develop. 20 yards with tight choke means your quarry is mince - hence, "give it lore". Yep, there is always that percentage chance. It's perhaps worth noting that BASC - obviously this refers to a truly aimed shot - gives the percentage success rate for a correctly matched cartridge/barrel/choke/pattern density/range - call it what you will - as 95%. Not too shabby. Unfortunately, too often this 'marriage' of the essential elements has not been checked out before setting off into the field.

Edited July 8, 2017 by wymberley

[suburban shooter]

I killed my first grey with my car at 30 miles an hour that is 44 feet per second not very fast in terms or air rifle pellets but there are 15, 432 grains in a kilo and my car was approx 500 kilos; the squirrel tried to evade the car but the steering wheel allowed the car to hit the moving target. The squirrel impact did not slow the projectile down, there was no penetration but it was an instant kill. Bought a Webley Stingray springer in .22 used milbro Caledonian 15.6 g pellets, inaccurate, changed to Accupell 14.3 g became much more accurate killed 79 in 6 months missed plenty. Bought .177 pcp used JSB Exact 8.44 g very accurate and better at killing squirrels than the .22 Accupell. Then tried Crossman Destroyer 7.9 g does what it says on the tin up to 35 yds. H and N recommend 7.9 g for sub 12 lb air rifles so tried Crossman/ Webley Accupell 7.9 g were better than the JSBs. Then tried Crossman/Webley Powapell again 7.9 g but semi pointed shape (completely different shape to that shown on their tins) better longer ranges better in the wind and better at killing unless squirrels were small. I predominantly shoot heart rather than head. If you miss the heart you penetrate both of the lungs and secondary projectiles from smashed ribs cause even more trauma. I killed over 8oo with the '177 until it was stolen last month. I am now using .22 Gamo Phox it chronoed Accupells 14.3 g at 572 ft per second and was accurate to 10 mm groups (edge to edge) at 25 yds but H and N Sniper Lights 14 g chronoed at 580 ft per second and grouped edge to edge within a 5 pence piece. Great for head shots, great up to 25 yds for heart/lung but not beyond. I will try the Powapell but think that I will return to .177 next rifle. I believe that speed and penetration of the animal are the key to killing; dumping energy less so. .22 flat heads knock them off the tree but only break ribs.

[Guest]

Well, as I started this thread I'll answer my own question. I've gone back to the 16Gn AA Fields. I just didn't get on with a lighter pellet (less consistent and I'm not convinced of the stopping power of a lighter pellet). The 18Gn pellets were good inside 30yds but are best left for the fac rifle.

[clakk]

Same here prefer AA fields and H n N both around 16gr ,used cheap pellets but in my 97kt they spin through the target ,marksmen pellets and even lanes bulldogs for a plink just too light IMHO .atb

[Ultrastu]

I have to give credit to suburban shooter .

Too many people shoot a couple of rabbits or pigeon etc .and jump to conclusions about pellet type /cal etc where kill effectiveness is concerned .

But when a bloke kills around a 1000 squirrels using different cals and pellet types his conclusions are gonna be very valid .and worth listening too .

Well done .

[suburban shooter]

I have been using .22 since my sooper dooper .177 was stolen and i am getting used to the calibre now. Have killed 22 squirrels but don't have confidence with it beyond 35 yds. .22 hits harder but .177 kills better . Ballistic coefficient has a significant bearing on getting the pellet to the target but sectional density has more importance for what actually happens at the business end of the deal.

 

I am always learning and trying to achieve the optimum pellet/rifle pairing. I am also open to anyone's opinions and experience.

I am not getting any squirrels heavier than 550 g at the moment and the H and N sniper Light sat 14 grains are very effective out of the Gamo Phox /BSA XL has anyone got a better pellet for this rifle ? I got 3 today ; one through the elbow joint and then through the chest, one through the upper arm and then through the chest and one just in the engine room . Recovered all via scalpel and there was no deformation of pellet at all. I thought that a 14 grain .22 pellet would be soft and easily deformed through bone but in practice this is not the case.